At the end of the debate a great deal of what I wanted to say has already been said. I shall have to engage in some elimination as I proceed.

I am delighted that we have had the opportunity to debate the Finniston report. I hope that we shall take action on its positive aspects. There has been no shortage of reports to successive Governments on this subject. For example, there was the Dainton report on candidates in science and technology in higher education, the Swann report on the entry of science graduates into employment, the Fielden report on engineering design and the Zuckerman report on technological innovation. There have been many guidelines.

It is a sad fact that fewer gifted young people are encouraged by their teachers to opt for engineering. Although many engineering managers visit our schools, the attitude of young people stems from the attitude of their teachers. That is something that we must change As my hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline (Mr. Douglas) pointed out, it is an unusual career for a girl. About nine months ago I was at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. I was amazed at the number of female students. It was an eye-opener. There are a few progressive professors of civil engineering in our universities who encourage women students to study civil engineering. All hope is not lost.

As many hon. Members have said, part of the trouble is that our professional engineers do not enjoy the same status as their opposite numbers in Frence and Germany. In those countries a professional engineer has the status of a Minister of a federal government. Products of the Grandes Ecoles and of the Technische Hochschule achieve great eminence as consulting engineers, heads of great industries and as academics. However, we often prefer lawyers, accountants and those who do not have scientific training to head our industries. Instead of looking to practical, trained engineers and scientists to improve our industrial performance, we tend to find people such as Milton Friedman. He is helping the Government to make an even greater mess.

We need to improve education if we are to produce better engineers and scientists. However, as a result of cuts in education, universities are unable to replace staff. School leavers—our future technicians—are unemployed. They cannot undertake the training that they need. The prospects are therefore grim.

Last night there was a debate on the construction industry. It is interesting that the two debates followed each other. Yesterday's debate made clear that public sector contracts, on which civil engineering firms and others depend, are being cut back. At the same time our capital structure is ageing and deteriorating, and is not being enlarged or replaced. As a result, a massive amount of expenditure is being laid up for the future. If this vital area is to be improved, the Government must show that they are willing to give the same priority to developing industry as they are willing to give to defence. If they do not do that, the decline and waste in graduate and postgraduate education will continue.

The report makes proposals about the acquisition of engineering qualifications. If those proposals are adopted they will cause a great upheaval. Hon. Members have already mentioned that engineers can be separated into three groups. However, if the proposals were accepted a drastic reorganisation of degree courses would be involved. That would take a long time to set up and cannot be done overnight, or even within a year.

I should also like to draw attention to Lord Scanlon's speech during the debate on this report in another place. As one would expect from a man with unrivalled experience on the shop floor, he made a balanced and practical speech. He said that we had five to 10 years in which to get it right, and in which to establish ourselves as a leading industrial nation. He warned against setting up another quango. He thought that too many qualified engineers spent their time on research and development. I do not accept that that is true of a large number of civil and structural engineers. They apply their training and knowledge in a practical way. In every part of the world one can find our eminent engineers. Well-known firms are adding to our export achievements by designing and carrying out important projects.

Civil engineering is highly competitive. During the past decade there has been a decline in the volume of work. As a result, more civil engineering firms have had to look abroad for work in order to survive. In a highly competitive market they face severe competition from German, Japanese and Korean firms, particularly in the Middle East.

For a long time I have felt that Governments should give practical help and encouragement to such activities of civil engineering firms. Indeed, I pressed my party to do that when it was in office. I understand that the Engineering Employers' Federation supports the proposal to establish an engineering authority. However, civil and structural engineers and the Federation of Civil Engineering Contractors have put a contrary point of view to me. Of course their problems are different from those of manufacturing industry.

Those engineers believe that the addition of a statutory Finniston register is unnecessary and would not enhance the status of chartered civil engineers. The hon. Member for Poole (Mr. Ward) made the point that the appropriate institutions should continue to carry out the accreditation of professional examinations and company training programmes. They do not dispute that standards of certain degree courses should be improved, but believe that that should be achieved through the existing machinery rather than by setting up another authority.

The proposed new engineering authority will have no new powers outside the field of statutory registration, and will have to rely on persuasion, as the institutions do now. However, it will have almost 40 new tasks assigned to it, according to the report. The costs will be considerable and, to some degree, there will be a duplication of what is being done by the institutions. The institutions have to review educational training and standards constantly. After all, human lives depend on what civil and structural engineering firms do. They already do an enormous amount for accreditation and qualification.

At root lies the problem of the supply of science teachers in schools. I hope that the Government will take on board the urgent need to improve the supply and qualifications of science teachers. There is a need for new technology in our schools. We are far behind many other countries. We need to encourage girls to enter engineering courses and equip themselves to work in the new technology. Already a whole new vista has opened in that field, and we are far behind. Financial support has been inadequate. We hear the siren voices on the other side, calling all the time for more cuts in Government expenditure, but, without resources and without teachers, any hope of implementing the remainder of Finniston will be lost.