Dwellingmouses for the Elderly

Orders of the Day — Housing Bill – in the House of Commons at 8:45 pm on 19th May 1980.

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'(1) Where a conveyance or grant executed in pursuance of this Chapter is of a dwelling-house which is designed or specially adapted to make it suitable for occupation by persons of pensionable age or which the landlord certifies in writing to the tenant is reserved for letting to such persons, the conveyance or grant shall contain a perpetual right of pre-emption precluding a disposal of the dwellinghouse falling within subsection (2) below unless the owner for the time being has first offered to sell the dwellinghouse to the landlord with vacant possession and the landlord has refused the offer or has failed to accept it within one month after it is made, the price (subject to subsection (4) below) to be the price which, at that time, the dwellinghouse would realise if sold on the open market by a willing Vendor and which shall be determined by agreement between the parties but in default of such agreement which shall be determined by the District Valuer whose determination of such price shall be conclusive and not be capable of being questioned in any proceedings.

(2) A disposal falls within this sub-section if it is—

  1. (a) a further conveyance of the freehold or an assignment of the lease; or
  2. (b) the grant of lease or sub-lease for a term of more than 21 years otherwise than at a rack rent;

whether the disposal is of the whole or part of the dwellinghouse; but neither a disposal in pursuance of an order under section 24 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 nor a vesting in a person taking under a will or an intestacy is a disposal falling within this subsection.'.

(3) The reference in subsection (2) above to a lease or sub-lease does not include a mortgage term.

(4) Where a dwellinghouse falling within this section is sold by the landlord at a discount, the pre-emption right contained in the conveyance or grant shall provide that on the first occasion of a disposal falling within subsection (2) above which takes place within a period of five years from the date of the conveyance or grant, the purchase price payable on the exercise of the right shall be reduced by the amount specified in subsection (5) below.

(5) The amount by which the purchase price payable on the exercise of its pre-emption right is to be reduced in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (4) above shall be an amount equal to the discount to which the secure tenant was entitled on the sale by the landlord but reduced by 20 per cent. of that discount for each complete year which has elapsed between the date of the conveyance or grant and the date of purchase under the preemption right.

(6) Nothing in this section shall affect the operation of section 8 of this Act in relation to dwelling-houses to which this section applies.

(7) The pre-emption right referred to in this section shall be a local land charge and the Chief Land Registrar shall enter the appropriate restriction on the register of title as if application therefor had been made under section 58 of the Land Registration Act 1925.'.—[Mr. Kaufman.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Photo of Gerald Kaufman Gerald Kaufman , Manchester Ardwick 10:45 pm, 19th May 1980

I beg to move, that the clause be read a second time.

Photo of Mr Bernard Weatherill Mr Bernard Weatherill , Croydon North East

With this, it will be convenient to take amendment No. 90, in Schedule 1, page 88, line 23, at end insert— ' 5. The dwelling house has been provided primarily for the accommodation of elderly tenants and is situated in a National Park, or an area designated under section 87 of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949 as an area of outstanding natural beauty, or an area designated by Order of the Secretary of State as a rural area.'.

Photo of Gerald Kaufman Gerald Kaufman , Manchester Ardwick

The aim of the new clause is to fulfil a commitment in the Conservative Party election manifesto that recognised the special circumstances of sheltered housing for the elderly. By allowing council houses specially built for the elderly to be sold off, the Government are dissipating the most important of the housing stock for the elderly. The case has been well put in a document circulated to many hon. Members by the Association of District Councils. The association, arguing the case for special treatment for old people's houses, says (a) In many cases, it is in desperately short supply; housing authorities with little ' sheltered ' accommodation are heavily dependent upon it to meet the needs of the elderly, waiting times are often much longer than for other kinds of accommodation.(b) unlike ordinary family dwellings, occupancy is likely to change within a relatively short time-scale;(c) pre-emption in respect of such dwellings has been accepted in the parallel Scottish Bill (Clause 4 (4)); I hope that the Minister will explain why he is not willing to put into this Bill what is already in the Scottish Bill. The document states: (d) without some safeguards, purpose-built accommodation for the elderly may, within a short time-scale, be sold to people from other areas as retirement or second homes; a number of inland and coastal resort areas with an existing high proportion of elderly residents will have much of their accommodation for the elderly unprotected by the existing exemption in Schedule 1;(e) in practice, there is often little distinction between the occupants of sheltered schemes and those in specially designed accommodation without wardens. As the Bill stands, local authorities will be required to sell homes specially built for old people, and local authorities will not have pre-emption rights to get those back again. We believe, as stated in the new clause, that there should be a perpetual pre-emption right, subject to the landlord's first refusal. If the old person who has bought the house wishes to sell it again the council must first have the chance to take it back into its stock. In this way, old people will have the right to buy, upon which the Government appear to set such great store, but, at the same time, it will be impossible for old persons' bungalows to be sold permanently out of the public stock unless the local authority is given the right to take that old people's property back again.

The ADC talks about people buying retirement homes and second homes, but there is a much greater danger of fringe bankers and other seedy merchants hanging around old people's estates, waiting like vultures for the pickings that will be available under the provisions of the Bill. Old people will be bamboozled into buying their houses with a commitment to sell them to the fringe bankers and to seedy property speculators who hang around our great cities and other areas. We want to put that situation right. It is particularly important that these houses should be kept in the stock, because of the cost of building new property.

The Minister told us that the cost of building a new council house is now £19,250. Building an old person's house will cost more than that. Since the old person will almost certainly qualify for the maximum discount of 50 per cent., which is available with 17 years' residence, the local authority will get only 50 per cent. of its revenue to build new houses. A house will be built and in return the local authority will get, at most, a quarter of the value of the house, bearing in mind that the district valuer's valuation will probably be lower than the price of building a new house. That means that the authority will lose about 75 per cent. of its houses and they will not be replaced.

The amendment seeks to prevent the sale of old people's houses in rural areas where there is a particular shortage of such houses. It is little short of scandalous that the Government should consider removing such houses from the housing stock.

That is our proposal—first, a permanent pre-emption right on all old people's houses which can be sold to maintain those important specialised houses in local authority stocks and, secondly, a ban on the sale of those houses in rural areas.

I hope that not only my right hon. and hon. Friends but Conservative Members wishing to fulfil their election manifesto will vote with us on this proposal.

Photo of Mr Dale Campbell-Savours Mr Dale Campbell-Savours , Workington

I shall be brief. Some weeks ago the Allerdale district council sent a delegation to make representations to the Select Committee in the hope that the evidence of that Select Committee would come before the House prior to the Bill on Report to influence judgments and votes in the Division Lobbies.

There is considerable concern in the Allerdale district about those parts of the Bill which will lead to the sale of elderly persons' property to people outside the county of Cumbria. Inside the national park area the problem is essentially scarcity and restrictions by the Lake District planning board on new construction and new build of property for the elderly. The development of the second and holiday home syndrome means that between 12 per cent. and 17 per cent., dependent on what part of the national park one visits, are in the hands of people who own second homes or who use them for holiday lets in the summer season.

Another problem is that we have an immobile population. Therefore, few relets are available. In Keswick last year only six relets were made available, for a waiting list of 152 people. That is a reflection of the great problem throughout the national parks, not just in the part of the national park that falls within my constituency.

There are considerable fears in the local authority that the relatives of elderly people may find it opportune to fund the purchase of an elderly relative's house, thereby getting access to a second home in years to come. Reservations are being expressed by local authorities on this potential abuse of the Bill. It may be the Government's intention that that should happen.

The Government's response has been to introduce this 10-year pre-emption "buy back "clause. The Allerdale district council does not feel that that will resolve the problem. The local authority has been given the right to purchase back during a 10-year period, but at current market value. On a quick calculation, if a house in Keswick worth £30,000 today, which is a menial house, were to be sold at a 50 per cent. discount for £15,000 to a silting tenant or to a relative of that tenant, by the end of the Government's period in office the resale value of that house, based on the past five years of inflation in house prices in the Lake District national park, would be £91,552. It is sheer lunacy to expect a local authority to purchase back a property at over £91,000 when only five years previously it was compelled by legislation to sell that property with a 50 per cent. discount at £15,000.

I must say that there is a strong feeling not only in the national park that forms part of my constituency but in every national park in the country that the right hon. Gentleman would do well to read the proceedings of the Select Committee and try to take a sensible view, when we discuss Lords amendments, by making a recommendation that will appease the feelings that exist in the national parks.

Photo of John Stanley John Stanley Minister (Department of Environment) (Housing & Construction)

In the course of our proceedings, I do not believe that the right hon. Member for Manchester. Ardwick (Mr. Kaufman) has managed to pray in aid the Conservative manifesto in introducing an Opposition amendment. I am glad he is now converted to the merits of the Conservative manifesto. Perhaps he would like to look at further passages.

Photo of Gerald Kaufman Gerald Kaufman , Manchester Ardwick

I have got a very good passage, namely, the promise to reduce mortgages. How about that one?

Photo of John Stanley John Stanley Minister (Department of Environment) (Housing & Construction)

I think that we can square that one with the promises made by the Labour Party in the 1974 election to increase council house building year after year. Council house building went down year after year, as the right hon. Gentleman well knows.

The Government have already included in the Bill an important exclusion which is wider than the exclusion in the Scottish legislation, which is the point that is relevant to the pre-emption amendment also, as far as dwellings for the elderly are concerned. That is provided for in paragraph 4 of schedule 1 to the Bill.

We have also said that at no time do we think it would be right to produce a general exclusion of dwellings for the elderly. Also, we do not believe that it would be right to produce a general pre-emption clause going on to infinity for the elderly. We have, it is true, introduced a 10-year pre-emption clause for areas of outstanding natural beauty, national parks and designated rural areas, but, as I explained in Committee, we did that with some reluctance.

Pre-emption certainly circumscribes an important aspect of the ownership of someone who has bought a house if the local authority exercises the right to pre-emption. That means that an owner loses control of the determination of the price at which he sells his home. We, therefore, think it right that we should use pre-emption as sparingly as we can.

We believe that it is right that in the special circumstances of the rural areas we should provide the option of a 10-year pre-emption to the existing locality covenant, though we do not believe that it would be right to couple that the pre-emption going on its perpetuity for all elderly persons dwellings.

In relation to the national parks, we think that it would be wrong to produce an exclusion of all elderly persons' dwellings in certain geographical areas. The exclusion we believe should apply nationally because those dwellings are special types of elderly persons' dwellings with a social services facility. It would be quite wrong to say that in certain parts of the country such as the national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty that the exclusion which would apply to such dwellings should be different from the one which applied elsewhere.

We think that we have got the balance as right as we can get it. Clearly there must, to some extent, be a conflict between the interests of elderly people who wish to buy and a community interest in certain specialist types of property. We have achieved this by the combination of the exclusion in schedule 1 coupled with the pre-emption right, which we think should extend to the national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty.

To go further in the direction desired by the Opposition would be an undesirable extension of pre-emption generally and, as far as the national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty are concerned, it would be quite wrong to treat elderly persons' dwellings differently from the rest of the country.

I hope that the House will reject the Opposition's new clause.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

The House divided: Ayes 239, Noes 303.

Division No. 312]AYES[11pm
Abse, LeoBeith, A. J.Callaghan, Jim (Middleton & P)
Adams, AllenBenn, Rt Hon Anthony WedgwoodCampbell, Ian
Allaun, FrankBennett, Andrew (Stockport N)Campbell-Savours, Dale
Alton, DavidBidwell, SydneyCanavan, Dennis
Anderson, DonaldBooth, Rt Hon AlbertCant, R. B.
Archer, Rt Hon PaterBottomley, Rt Hon Arthur (M'brough)Carter-Jones, Lewis
Ashley, Rt Hon JackBradley, TomCartwrlght, John
Ashton, JoeBray, Dr JeremyClark, Dr David (South Shields)
Atkinson, Norman (H'gey, Tott'ham)Brown, Hugh D. (Provan)Cocks, Rt Hon Michael (Bristol S)
Bagler, Gordon A. T.Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W)Cohen, Stanley
Barnett, Guy (Greenwich)Brown, Ron (Edinburgh, Leilh)Coleman, Donald
Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (Heywood)Buchan, NormanConcannon, Rt Hon J. D.
Conlan, BernardHudson, Davies, Gwilym EdnyfedPowell, Rt Hon J. Enoch (S Down)
Cook, Robin F.Hughes, Mark (Durham)Powell, Raymond (Ogmore)
Cowans, HarryHughes, Robert (Aberdeen North)Prescott, John
Craigen, J. M. (Glasgow, Maryhill)Hughes, Roy (Newport)Price, Christopher (Lewlsham West)
Crowther, J. SJanner, Hon GrevilleRace, Reg
Cryer, BobJay, Rt Hon DouglasRichardson, Jo
Cunliffe, LawrenceJohn, BrynmorRoberts, Albert (Normanton)
Cunningham, George (Islington S)Johnson, Walter (Derby South)Roberts, Alian (Bootle)
Cunningham, Dr John (Whitehaven)Johnston, Russell (Inverness)Roberts, Ernest (Hackney North)
Dalyell, TarnJones, Rt Hon Alec (Rhondda)Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock)
Davidson, ArthurJones, Barry (East Flint)Robinson, Geoffrey (Coventry NW)
Davies, Rt Hon Denzll (Llanelli)Jones, Dan (Burnley)Rooker, J. W.
Davis, Clinton (Hackney Central)Kaufman, Rt Hon GeraldRoss, Ernest (Dundee West)
Davis, Terry (B'rm'ham, Stechford)Kerr, RussellRoss, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Deakins, EricKilroy-Silk, RobertRoss, Wm. (Londonderry)
Dean, Joseph (Leeds West)Lambie, DavidRowlands, Ted
Dempsey, JamesLamborn, HarryRyman, John
Dewar, DonaldLamond, JamesSandelson, Neville
Dobson, FrankLeadbitter, TedSever, John
Dormand, JackLeighton, RonaldSheerman, Barry
Douglas, DickLestor, Miss Joan (Eton & Slough)Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert (A'ton-u-L)
Douglas-Mann, BruceLewis, Arthur (Newham North West)Shore, Rt Hon Peter (Step and Pop)
Dubs, AlfredLitherland, RobertShort, Mrs Renėe
Duffy, A. E. P.Lofthouse, GeoffreySilkin, Rt Hon John (Deptford)
Dunn, James A. (Liverpool, Kirkdale)Lyon, Alexander (York)Sllkin, Rt Hon S. C. (Dulwich)
Dunwoody, Mrs GwynethLyons, Edward (Bradford West)Silverman, Julius
Ellis, Raymond (NE Derbyshire)Mabon, Rt Hon Dr J. DicksonSkinner, Dennis
English, MichaelMcDonald, Dr OonaghSmith, Rt Hon J. (North Lanarkshire)
Ennals, Rt Hon DavidMcElhone, FrankSnape, Peter
Evans, loan (Aberdare)McGulre, Michael (Ince)Soley, Clive
Evans, John (Newton)McKay, Allen (Penistone)Spriggs, Leslie
Ewing, HarryMcKelvey, WilliamStallard, A. W.
Faulds, AndrewMacKenzie, Rt Hon GregorStoddart, David
Field, FrankMaclennan, RobertStrang, Gavin
Fitch, AlanMcNaily, ThomasStraw, Jack
Flannery, MartinMcWilliam, JohnSummerskill, Hon Dr Shirley
Fletcher, Ted (Darlington)Magee, BryanTaylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton West)
Foot, Rt Hon MichaelMarks, KennethThomas, Dafydd (Merioneth)
Ford, BenMarshall, David (Gl'sgow, Shettles'n)Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery)
Forrester, JohnMarshall, Dr Edmund (Goole)Thomas, Dr Roger (Carmarthen)
Foster, DerekMarshall, Jim (Leicester South)Thorne, Stan (Preston South)
Fraser, John (Lambeth, Norwood)Mason, Rt Hon RoyTilley, John
Freeson, Rt Hon ReginaldMaxton, JohnTorney, Tom
Freud, ClementMaynard, Miss JoanUrwln, Rt Hon Tom
Garrett, John (Norwich S)Meacher, MichaelVarley, Rt Hon Eric G.
George, BruceMellish, Rt Hon RobertWalnwright, Edwin (Dearno Valley)
Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr JohnMikardo, IanWatklns, David
Ginsburg, DavidMlllan, Rt Hon BruceWeetch, Ken
Gourlay, HarryMiller, Dr M. S. (East Kilbride)Wellbeloved, James
Graham, TedMitchell, Austin (Grimsby)Welsh, Michael
Grant, George (Morpeth)Mitchell, R. C. (Soton, Itchen)White, Frank R. (Bury & Radcllfte)
Grant, John (Islington C)Molyneaux, JamesWhite, James (Glasgow, Pollok)
Hamilton, James (Bothwell)Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wythenshawe)Whitehead, Phillip
Hamilton, W. W. (Central Fife)Morris, Rt Hon Charles (Openshaw)Whitlock, William
Hardy, PeterMorris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon)Wigley, Dafydd
Harrison, Rt Hon WalterMorton, GeorgeWilliams, Rt Hon Alan (Swansea W)
Hart, Rt Hon Dame JudithMoyle, Rt Hon RolandWlliams, Sir Thomas (Warrington)
Hattersley, Rt Hon RoyNewens, StanleyWilson, Rt Hon Sir Harold (Huyton)
Haynes, FrankOakes, Rt Hon GordonWilson, William (Coventry SE)
Healey, Rt Hon DenlsOgden, EricWinnick, David
Helfer, Eric S.O'Halloran, MichaelWoodall, Alec
Hogg, Norman (E Dunbartonshire)O'Neill, MartinWoolmer, Kenneth
Holland, Stuart (L'beth, Vauxhall)Orme, Rt Hon StanleyWrigglesworth, Ian
Home Robertson, JohnOwen, Rt Hon Dr DavidYoung, David (Bolton East)
Homewood, WilliamPalmer, Arthur
Hooley, FrankPark, GeorgeTELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Horam, John Howells, GeralntParry, Robert Pendry, TomMr. Hugh McCartney and
Huckfield, LesPenhallgon, DavidMr. James Tinn.
NOES
Adley, RobertBendall, VivianBoyson, Dr Rhodes
Aitken, JonathanBenyon, Thomas (Abingdon)Braine, Sir Bernard
Alexander, RichardBenyon, W. (Buckingham)Bright, Graham
Amery, Rt Hon JulianBest, KeithBrinton, Tim
Ancram, MichaelBevan, David GilroyBrocklebank-Fowler, Christopher
Arnold, TomRiffen, Rt Hon JohnBrooke, Hon Peter
Aspinwall, JackBiggs-Davison, JohnBrotherton, Michael
Atkins, Rt Hon H. (Spelthorne)Blackburn, JohnBrown, Michael (Brigg & Sc'thorpe)
Atkins, Robert (Preston North)Blaker, PeterBrowne, John (Winchester)
Atkinson, David (B'mouth, East)Body, RichardBruce-Gardyne, John
Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset)Bonsor, Sir NicholasBryan, Sir Paul
Banks, RobertBoscawen, Hon RobertBuchanan-Smith, Hon Alick
Beaumont-Dark, AnthonyBottomley, Peter (Woolwich West)Buck, Antony
Budgen, NickHill, JamesPage, Richard (SW Hertfordshire)
Bulmer, EsmondHogg, Hon Douglas (Grantham)Parkinson, Cecil
Burden, F. A.Holland, Philip (Carlton)Parris, Matthew
Butcher, JohnHooson, TomPatten, Christopher (Bath)
Bulter, Hon AdamHordern, PeterPatten, John (Oxford)
Cadbury, JocelynHowe, Rt Hon Sir GeoffreyPattle, Geoffrey
Carlisle, John (Luton West)Howell, Rt Hon David (Guildford)Pawsey, James
Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoin)Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk)Percival, Sir Ian
Carlisle, Bt Hon Mark (Runcorn)Hunt, David (Wlrral)Peyton, Rt Hon John
Chalker, Mrs. LyndaHunt, John (Ravensbourne)Pink, R. Bonner
Channon, PaulHurd, Hon DouglasPollock, Alexander
Chapman, SydneyIrving, Charles (Cheltenham)Porter, George
Churchill, W. S.Jenkln, Rt Hon PatrickPrice, David (Eastleigh)
Clark, Hon Alan (Flymouih, Sutton)Johnson Smith, GeoffreyPrior, Rt Hon James
Clark, Sir William (Croydon South)Jopling, Rt Hon MichaelProctor, K. Harvey
Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe)Joseph, Rt Hon Sir KeithRaison, Timothy
Cockeram, EricKaberry, Sir DonaldRathbone, Tim
Colvin, MichaelKimball, MarcusRees, Rt Hon Meriyn (Leeds South)
Cope, JohnKing, Rt Hon TomRees-Davles, W. R.
Corrie, JohnKltson, Sir TimothyRenton, Tim
Costain, A. P.Knight, Mrs. JillRhodes James, Robert
Critchley, JulianKnox, DavidRhys Williams, Sir Brandon
Crouch, DavidLamont, NormanRidsdaie, julian
Dickens, GeoffreyLang, IanRifkind Malcolm
Dorrell, StephenLangford-Holt, Sir JohnRoberts, Michael (Cardiff NW)
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord JamesLatham, MichaelRoberts, Wyn (Conway)
Dover, DenshoreLawrence, IvanRost, Peter
du Cann, Rt Hon EdwardLawson, NigelRoyie, on Antony
Dunn, Robert (Dartford)Lee, JohnSainsbury, Hon Timothy
Durant, TonyLester, Jim (Beeston)Scott, Nicholas
Dykes, HughLewis, Kenneth (Rutland)Shaw, Giles (Pudsey)
Eden, Rt Hon Sir JohnLloyd, Ian (Havant & Waterloo)Shaw, Michael (Scarborough)
Edwards, Rt Hon N. (Pembroke)Lloyd, Peter (Fareham)Shelton, William (Streatham)
Eggar, TimothyLoveridge, JohnShepherd, Colin (Hereford)
Elliott Sir WilliamLuce, RichardShepherd, Richard (Aldridge-Br'hills)
Emery, PeterLyell, NicholasShersby, Michael
Fairgrieve, RussellMcCrindle, RobertSilvester, Fred
Faith, Mrs SheilaMacfarlane, NellSims Roger
Farr, JohnMacGregor, JohnSkeet T.H.H.
Fell, AnthonyMacKay, John (Argyll)Smith Dudley (War and Leam'ton)
Fermer, Mrs PeggyMacmillan, Rt Hon M. (Farnham)Speed, Keith
Finsberg, GeoffreyMcNair-Wilson, Michael (Newbury)Speller, Tony
Fisher, Sir NigelMcNair-Wilson, Patrick (New Forest)Spence, John
Fletcher, Alexander (Edinburgh N)McQuarrie, AlbertSpicer, Michael (S Worcestershire)
Fletcher-Cooke, CharlesMadel, DavidSproat, Iain
Forman, NigelMajor, JohnSquire, Robin
Fox, MarcusMarland, PaulStianton, Keith
Fraser, Rt Hon H. (Stafford & St)Marlow, TonyStanbrook, Ivor
Fraser Peter (South Angus)Marshall, Michael (Arundel)Stanley, John
Fry, PeterMarten, Neil (Banbury)Steen, Anthony
Galbraith, Hon T. G. D.Mates, MichaelStevens, Martin
Gardiner, George (Relgate)Mather, CarolStewart lan (Hitchin)
Gardner, Edward (South Fylde)Maude, Rt Hon AngusStewart, John (East Renfrewshire)
Garel-Jones, TristanMawby, RayStokes, John
Gilmour, Rt Hon Sir IanMawhlnney, Dr BrianStradling Thomas, J.
Glyn, Dr. AlanMaxwell-Hyslop, RobinTapsell, Peter
Goodhew, VictorMayhew, PatrickTaylor, Robert (Croydon NW)
Goodlad, AlastairMeiler, DavidTaylor Teddy (Southend East)
Gorst, JohnMeyer, Sir AnthonyTebbit, Norman
Gow IanMiller, Hal (Bromsgrove & Redditch)Temple-Morris Peter
Gower, Sir RaymondMills, lain (Meriden)Thatcher, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret
Gray, HamishMlscampbell, NormanThomas, Rt Hon Peter (Hendon S)
Greenway, HarryMitchell, David (Basingstoke)Thompson, Donald
Grieve, PercyMoate, RogerThorne, Neil (Ilford South)
Griffiths, Eldon (Bury St Edmunds)Monro, HectorThornton, Malcolm
Griffithe Peter (Portsmouth N)Montgomery, FergusTownend, John (Bridlington)
Grist, IanMoore, JohnTownsend, Cyril D. (Bexleyheath)
Grylls, MichaelMorgan, GeraintTrippier, David
Gummer, John SelwynMorris, Michael (Northampton, Sth)Trotter, Neville
Hamilton, Hon Archie (Eps'm&Ew'll)Morrison, Hon Charles (Devizes)van Straubenzee, W. R.
Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury)Morrison, Hon Peter (City of Chester)Vaughan, Dr Gerard
Viggers Peter
Hampson, Dr Keith Hannam, JohnMudd, David Murphy, ChristopherWaddlngton, David
Haselhurst, AlanMyles, DavidWakeham, John
Waldegrave, Hon William
Hastings, StephenNeedham, RichardWalker, Bill (Perth & E Perthshire)
Havers, Rt Hon Sir MichaelNelson, AnthonyWalker-Smith, Rt Hon Sir Derek
Hawkins, PaulNeubert, MichaelWall, Patrick
Hawksley, WarrenNewton, TonyWaller Gary
Hayhoe, BarneyNott, Rt Hon Johnwaner, Gary
Heddle, JohnOnslow, CranleyWalters, Dennis
Henderson, BarryOppenheim, Rt Hon Mrs SallyWard, John
Heseltine. Rt Hon MichaelOsborn, JohnWarren, Kenneth
Hicks, RobertPage, John (Harrow, West)Watson, John
Kfggins, Rt Hon Terence L.Page, Rt Hon Sir R. GrahamWells, John (Maidstone)
Wells, Bowen (Herl'rd & Stev'nage)Wilkinson, JohnYounger, Rt Hon George
Wheeler, JohnWilliams, Delwyn (Montgomery)
Whitelaw, Rt Hon WilliamWinterton, NicholasTELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Whitney, RaymondWolf son, MarkMr. Spencer Le Merchant and
Wickenden, KeithYoung, Sir George (Acton)Mr. Anthony Berry.
Wiggin, Jerry

Question accordingly negatived.

Photo of Lieut-Colonel Dick Crawshaw Lieut-Colonel Dick Crawshaw , Liverpool Toxteth

As there are no other Government new clauses, we move to amendment No. 213.