Inland Revenue (Discretion)

Part of Oral Answers to Questions — Prime Minister (Engagements) – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 27 March 1979.

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Photo of Mr Patrick Wall Mr Patrick Wall , Haltemprice 12:00, 27 March 1979

I understand that they are in position, but of course the two divisions to which I referred will come later in any emergency.

There is one issue on the tank that I want to take up. I am rather horrified to hear that the British will try to build a main battle tank for the 1980s at a cost of £1 million each, when the Americans are producing the XM-1 and the Germans the Leopard II. If the three major allies in NATO cannot combine and have the same tank, I hesitate to think of the bills that we shall face in the future. Surely if we are fighting the same war we can do so with the same equipment.

I turn briefly to the northern flank. The reinforcements there are mainly British. They are the Royal Marine Commando brigade, which I had the pleasure of meeting in Norway a few days ago when, incidentally, I slept in a tent in the Norwegian hills in a temperature of minus 12° centigrade, which I do not propose to repeat in the near future. The second reinforcements are the Canadians, and then possibly the United States Marine Corps. But most important of all are immediate air reinforcements.

I believe that NATO allies and the Government have done a great deal to speed up these reinforcements, and this is vital. I have criticised the Government year after year about reinforcements in the northern flank. They did away with the commando carrier, they used the assault ships for other purposes and have cut the marine helicopter lift. That is the past. I agree with the able attack made on the Government by my hon. Friend the Member for Chertsey and Walton, except that I think he got the wrong target I believe that the real target is the right hon. Gentleman who is now Chancellor of the Exchequer, who was the most disastrous Minister of Defence that we ever had.

Be that as it may, one must give credit where credit is due. I am sorry that the right hon. Gentleman has left, but I am glad to see the Under-Secretary of State for Defence for the Royal Navy. HMS "Hermes" and HMS "Bulwark" are now available for reinforcements and amphibious training, RFA "Tarbatness" is being supplied for this work, 41 commando is being resuscitated, the 105 gun and the Sea King helicopter are coming in and oversnow vehicles are being provided as well as skis for the commandos. All this is a great advance. I congratulate the Under-Secretary on these matters because I know he has them very much at heart.

I come briefly to my last point, which relates to maritime. I have said that the Kola base is the largest military establishment in the world. The Russians keep their main fleet at that base as well as most of their nuclear submarines. In any war, the Russian front line will be the Greenland-Iceland-United Kingdom gap. That is where they will fight the next battle of the Atlantic. Admiral Sir Terence Lewin, in a recent speech to the Royal Society of Arts, pointed out that the Russians have 355 submarines, of which 155 are nuclear propelled. According to him, they also have 400 to 500 Backfire and Badger aircraft in the navy alone. Therefore, that battle of the Atlantic, if it ever happens, will be a terrible one. In parenthesis, may I say that I believe that in Sir Terence Lewin we shall have the finest leader we have had since the days of Earl Mountbatten.

What should we do in the maritime sector? I believe there are two immediate priorities. First, there is the defence of the United Kingdom base. We have heard a lot about the air defence of the base. I do not have time to go into that, but I remind the House that the Russians are the world's experts in mine laying. They lay mines from submarines and from the air. We do not have enough mine hunters or minesweepers to keep more than two ports in this kingdom open. That could be disastrous.

I am glad that the Minister has already made the point about the new Brecon class coming in, and I am glad to see that he is taking up fishery trawlers. There are a lot more that he can have in Hull as auxiliary minesweepers.

The other issue as a first priority must be ASW. Here the Government's cuts over the years have lost us nine frigates or destroyers. We need more ships. A lot of improvements are coming in, as referred to in the White Paper, such as Seawolf, Icara, improved sonar and Sea Skua. But nothing has been said about the use of container ship and tankers, which is one of the most important issues of all. Without spending much money, the Government can have auxiliary aircraft carriers and anti-submarine vessels, provided they make the preparation and have the reserves now, and Sea Harrier could be operated from these ships.

The AV8B, the American successor to the Harrier, has 100 per cent. more lift and 200 per cent. more range than Harrier. I am told that the United States Marine Corps wants to order 345, and that may be followed by a naval order. That order would be more likely if the Royal Air Force ordered, for instance, 25 of these AV8Bs, many of which could be made in this country. I hope that the Minister of State will say something about that. I should also like to know what we are doing about the United States vertical launcher system developed by Martin Marietta. Rockets are discharged vertically from the ship's hull, 68 in a bank, and can be used against submarines or aircraft, and would enormously increase the firepower of our ships.

I shall not weary the House with the battle for resources, but that is the most important consideration of all. It has been referred to by SACLANT and SACEUR. The area outside NATO is where we may all be defeated without a war being fought. With Middle East oil and the minerals in Southern Africa, everything depends on the Cape route, the integrity of the Middle East and above all the integrity of Southern Africa, particularly South Africa. The Government's present policy is doing everything possible to destroy our relations with those vital parts of the world.

My right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition understands only too well the processes of Russian thought. That is why she has been christened the "Iron Maiden". For 30 years NATO has kept the peace, supported by everybody in this House except the extreme Left, but NATO's resolve may well be tested between 1982 and 1985. The next Conservative Government are pledged to give defence its proper priority, and I hope that that Government will match up to my right hon. Friend's resolve and give her their full backing on these vital issues.