Employment Protection Acts

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 8 March 1979.

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Photo of Mr Eric Heffer Mr Eric Heffer , Liverpool, Walton 12:00, 8 March 1979

The right hon. Member for Lowestoft (Mr. Prior) made a remarkably moderate speech, as did the right hon. Member for Crosby (Mr. Page). I assume that they are projecting the new image of the Conservatives following the wild speeches and statements made by the Opposition during the disputes that took place after Christmas. Undoubtedly, as the general election gets nearer, the wild image and the wild men will be put on the shelf and the more moderate image will be brought out. I do not see many of those wild men in the Conservative Party on the Benches tonight. Conservative Members know that there are plenty of wild men among them. I was here when we discussed the Employment Opportunities (Small Businesses) Bill which was introduced by a Conservative Member and I remember the wild speeches made by some Conservative Members on that occasion. As we get nearer to the general election, the wild image is put aside and no doubt the Conservative whips will tell their Members "Keep it cool, lads. Do not tell them what we really believe. Let them get the idea that we are more moderate in our approach to the unions than we really are."

I should like to take up the point about the Merseyside chamber of commerce survey. The impression was given that small businesses were being battered, as far as employment possibilities are concerned, because of the Employment Protection Act. I do not deny that there may be some employers—though very few—who have been deterred from employing more workers because they are under a misapprehension about the Act.

When Merseyside was developed, small businesses were practically destroyed. Whole areas of small businesses were bulldozed and that is one reason why they no longer exist in vast areas of Liverpool and other parts of Merseyside.

The other factor is that the port of Liverpool is no longer the port that it was. It is no longer a passenger port, with all the small businesses that were part of the passenger trade. They have gone and that is the basic reason why small businesses in Liverpool have disappeared. Of course, we have to be concerned about bringing small businesses back to Merseyside. Some of us are anxious to do that and have argued for a long time that there must be greater efforts in that direction. The Merseyside chamber of commerce may have a case up to a point, but the real reasons for the problem are those that I have given.

It is unfortunate that some small employers may have been deterred—because of the propaganda emanating from Conservative Members—from taking on workers whom they would have employed but for that political propaganda.

None of my hon. Friends suggests, as the right hon. Member for Lowestoft implied, that everything is all right and that we are living in the best of all possible worlds. We have never said that. There is no doubt that the Act gives workers greater protection than they have had in the past, and I am not ashamed that my party brought in such legislation. It was long overdue and it still goes only a modest distance in the direction that is required. We can feel proud of the Act, but we should push for it to go still further.

Let us look at some of the provisions of the Act. It set up ACAS and I believe that it is a good thing that we have a system of conciliation and arbitration. That was also long overdue. It makes provision for the protection of women from dismissal on the grounds of pregnancy. It provides for maternity pay and that working-class people should be given time off for trade union activities or for serving on a public authority. However, there is still no real guarantee. If a company decides that it is not in its interests for a worker to serve on a public authority, there can be arguments about time off.

Anyone listening to Conservative Members would imagine that the Act gives workers all the rights in the world. It does not—even in relation to unfair dismissal. A case was raised with me recently by a worker from a country area represented by a Conservative Member who refused to take up the man's case. I took up his case because he was working on an estate and was unfairly dismissed. His case was upheld by a tribunal and he was granted a sum of money as compensation. But then the lawyers got to work and that money was whittled down to next to nothing. Yet we are told by Conservative Members that the Act protects workers in such a way that they have too many rights and that the balance has moved too far in their direction. That is a travesty of the truth.

The Act provides greater rights than workers have had before. And why not? The right hon. Member for Crosby gave examples of what he saw on the docks. My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Garston (Mr. Loyden) was part of the docks set-up and was closer to dockers than I have ever been. He knows the sort of things that used to go on.

I was a ship repair worker and, when I started work on Merseyside after the war, we had to queue outside Cunard and many other ship repair companies at 7.30 a.m. with our tool bags. The foreman would come out and decide which workers he wanted. The rest had to go home.