Clause 1

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 17 January 1979.

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Photo of Mr Jock Stallard Mr Jock Stallard , Camden St Pancras North 12:00, 17 January 1979

It is not my intention to delay the Committee for longer than is absolutely necessary on this important constitutional matter. It is not often that I find myself in too much sympathy with the hon. Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder) or with his hon. Friend the Member for Antrim, North (Rev, Ian Paisley). I confess to a certain amount of sympathy with them on the question of the discussion of representation from the Six Counties and with their type of argument, albeit that I want to oppose the amendment moved by the hon. Member for Antrim, North.

I do not think that we can seriously begin to discuss this issue on the naive comparison made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State when he suggested that Yorkshire and the Six Counties can be equated. This ultranaive comparison between the Six Counties and any other part of the United Kingdom does not bear any examination; nor would anyone, of whatever political persuasion, if he thought about it for a few seconds, feel that such an important issue could be discussed on such a basis.

I asked the hon. Member for Antrim, North, in an intervention, why he had not been so vociferous in the past, during the existence of Stormont, on the question of representation and the number of seats. He honestly answered that his priority, even now, would be some form of devolved government in the Six Counties rather than increased representation. I found some measure of agreement with him there. If I can find that measure of amity and agreement, even from where I stand—and there is no secret about this—with someone who is so diametrically opposed to everything else that I say, I feel entitled to hope that there is at least some chance of finding agreement among politicians in Northern Ireland on other proposals, before we get to the question of representation.

I do not accept that it is an "either-or" situation. I put that to the hon. Member for Down, North. I think that we can discuss devolved government, and that we ought to be discussing some structure of devolution for Northern Ireland at all levels. A devolved Convention, Assembly, or whatever it was, could then discuss representation and decide whether it wanted more or less. It would be for that body to decide and not for us sitting here.

The degree of interest in the problem can be seen by the small number of hon. Members present tonight. Do we honestly believe that hon. Members here should make the decision? If we were honest, we would agree that they ought not even to have a voice in such a decision. It should be for the devolved Assembly to decide what the representation should be. That Assembly would be composed of people on the spot who understood the position. It should be for them to decide, in conjunction, perhaps, with the Mother of Parliaments, or with the base unit, the size of representation.