Orders of the Day — Unemployment

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 24 July 1978.

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Photo of Mr James Craigen Mr James Craigen , Glasgow Maryhill 12:00, 24 July 1978

I am interested that the hon. Member for Harrow, Central (Mr. Grant) offered no instant solution to the problem. We did not get any satisfactory outline about how we were to reduce unemployment if a Conservative Government came to power. However, I thought that the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Mr. Hay-hoe) was correct when he suggested that there would be an opting out of the democratic process unless we were trying seriously to reduce the incidence of unemployment.

I do not think the Punch and Judy debates we tend to have in this House on unemployment really address themselves to the complex problems of organising the labour market in the 1970s and for the 1980s. Regardless of one's political persuasion, there are certain obstinate population facts which will have a major impact on our employment policies in the foreseeable future. We know of the growing number of youngsters coming on to the labour market, that for the next five years or so there will be a levelling out of the number of people due to retire and that, therefore, the employment market will grow.

It is significant that in the White Paper which we are to discuss tomorrow one of the major pointers is the problem of productivity in Britain. I think it is true to say that if we are to increase our productivity, as we must, we shall have as a corollary some shedding of labour. It seems to me that this will be the inevitable result immediately, though not necessarily in the long term if we can create other job opportunities.

One of the problems which we do not always look at as seriously as we might is the way in which industry is prepared to spend a lot of money employing professional advisers and work study officers to look at means of economising on the labour content. All this has some impact on the availability of jobs in the years to come.

The hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth mentioned the importance of the micro-processing revolution, and I think that he was right to do so. Unfortunately, I am not a scientist. Nor are the majority of hon. Members. Therefore, perhaps we do not keep abreast of these major developments which will have untold effects for our labour market.

I was pleased that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister indicated recently that the Think Tank was to look at this problem area. I say that not so much because of any implicit faith in the Think Tank but simply because the problem is to be looked at.

One means of making more employment opportunities available is a reduction in the working week. I feel that it is logical that we should be thinking along these lines. However, like the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth, I, too, started off on the shop floor. I can remember how in the printing industry, when the 40-hour week was introduced, instead of getting the benefit of the four hours reduction many journeymen at the time simply worked more overtime.

Industry has not changed all that much over the years. We have 1·5 million unemployed, but the amount of overtime working in British industry has been increasing. Some plain speaking will have to be engaged in by trade union leaders if we are to ensure that there is a reduction in the amount of overtime that is worked and a consequent increase in the number of people employed.

I mentioned the White Paper containing the Government's policy on "Winning the Battle Against Inflation". In a way today's debate will dovetail with tomorrow's debate. We cannot separate the problems of employment from those of payment and pay policy. One of the basic problems in industry is boredom. We tend to measure discontent in industry by means of statistics on the number of days lost through strikes. We have no yardstick by which we can measure the level of industrial contentment in our society. I suggest that absenteeism in industry, especially in certain industries, is an index of the extent to which working men and women are often discontented with their jobs.

Trade union officials will say privately —especially the older officials who have themselves experienced the bitterness of unemployment—how hurting it is that they are spending a good deal of their time as little more than redundancy brokers. Unfortunately, they are fending off men who are prepared to sell their jobs to get larger redundancy payments. We must find answers to those problems if we are serious about employment policy.

The White Paper that was introduced last Friday seems to suggest that if we are to move towards a shorter working week that will have to be done on a firm by firm basis so that the cost may all come out of the kitty. That almost argues for the extension of industrial democracy. That is not something that the Opposition are keen to see. If the move towards a shorter working week is to proceed company by company, it will have to be undertaken by those who know what is going on in their industry or company.

It is unfortunate that another aspect of our industrial relations is the extent to which we still operate on the upstairs and downstairs basis. We still have people working on the shop floor who feel that they have nothing in common with management in the administration block. That is another factor that bedevils our employment and growth policies.

I was interested in what the hon. Member for Brantford and Isleworth said about the proportion of unskilled workers, representing about 40 to 46 per cent. of the unemployed. I tried to obtain some figures on the proportion of unskilled workers in different parts of the country. I was told that obtaining that information would be far too costly. I winkled out sonic information on the Clydeside area, where the proportion is higher than 50 per cent. I was trying to put the case that the areas with the greatest employment difficulties tend to be the areas with the highest proportion of unskilled workers.

I am glad to see that the Minister of State, Scottish Office, is on the Front Bench. I saw my hon. Friend to argue the case for an additional skillcentre for the Glasgow area. I hope that he is keeping in mind my argument about the Cowlairs estate. If we are to achieve a breakthrough in reducing the number of unskilled workers and increasing the availability of skilled workers, it is obvious that skillcentres are one means of so doing. Also important are the courses, training opportunities programme and in-plant training that some of the more progressive companies make available.

I have asked the Department of Education and Science what calculations it is making about the future schooling of our youngsters and the proportion of young people who in the 1970s and 1980s will be entering jobs that do not require a formal training. I reckon that the numbers may amount to about 40 per cent. In the light of industrial development nowadays, that would be far too high a percentage.

Earlier retirement is often argued as a means of reducing the numbers on the dole. I should like to see parity of retirement age between men and women, but I am bound to say that some firms argue that many of their most skilled and reliable men are often aged between 60 years and 65 years. That is a fact of life that has to be borne in mind.

I see no reason for not adopting more flexible practices in industry and allowing more part-time employment for the semiretired. I have in mind men in the 6065 year bracket. That is one means of trying to get the best of both worlds. It would allow job opportunities for youngsters and at the same time retain some of the lifetime experience that many older men have acquired.

Britain is not particularly good at matching supply and demand in its labour market. We tend to follow ideas from other countries—they are not always the best ideas—in the operation of our industrial training and employment policies. I still feel that there is a need for some form of commission of inquiry simultaneously to investigate the changes taking place in our education system, our labour markets and in the future job opportunities that will be available to our population, perhaps including the growing problem of relativities or differentials in industry.

The problem of relativities or differentials is hardly new. It appears in the parable of the vineyard. There is a need to re-examine relativities within British industry.

If as a nation we still believe in the work ethic, I fear that we shall be swimming against the tide if we imagine that we are to create as many new jobs in what is left of the 1970s and what we have to face in the 1980s while at the same time we have an expanding working population. We have technological changes. The white heat of the technological revolution has long since descended on us. We have a changed labour market.

We have their lordships in the House next door—I shall be careful what I say —where there is a hereditary element. I do not want to see a situation in which more and more households throughout the country have a hereditary element of unemployment. That is not something that we can afford to allow to develop, but I very much fear that there is increasing evidence that that is happening.