Orders of the Day — Defence

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 14 March 1978.

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Mr. Williams:

I agree about that, but of all the areas in which the Soviet Union has increased its forces it is in the tactical area that it has increased them least. I take the hon. Member's point.

It is important that we concentrate on the areas for stability in terms of weapons. The Soviet Union is concerned about the nuclear question. We have an opportunity to turn this back on the Soviet Union and say "If you have this understandable concern about the development of tactical nuclear weapons and new weapons that might come along, you must recognise our legitimate fears about your tank strength." The Soviet Union has increased its number of tanks by 4,000 in the last decade. The ratio is now 2·7 to 1.

If we can get the Soviet Union to move on that, we might yet find that some progress is made towards mutual and balanced force reductions. However, I frankly do not put too much store by that. The MBFR talks have stalled and the Soviet Union shows a defensive position in the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe. That indicates that the Soviet Union still intends to increase its forces. It has increased its force capability in Central Europe in a most alarming way. It has gone in for a new strategy which we all should recognise. That strategy is to move its forces nearer to the Western position so that we are given the impression that the Soviet Union has the capability to move quickly from day one into war situation. I am not claiming that the Soviet Union intends to go to war. I do not believe that she does. But she has the capability to do so.

In these circumstances, it would be imprudent for us not to take action. That is why I welcome my right hon. Friend's speech and the robust speech of my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Defence for the Royal Air Force, who stated that Britain's defence policy is four square behind NATO. I welcome the expenditure increase of 3 per cent. for 1978–79, modest though that is. In last year's defence debate, I expressed the hope that we would increase defence expenditure if economic circumstances allowed. I am pleased to see this modest increase.

I turn to the amendment tabled by some of my hon. Friends. The gap between them and myself is not necessarily that wide. I have found that to be so when I have discussed the matter individually with my hon. Friends. They want to achieve the same objective. They want to see some movement in MBFR. They want to see detente strengthened. However, their policy will weaken detente. Their policy is even against the spirit of the Labour Party manifesto. The manifesto stresses that detente is based firmly on defence. As I understand it, that is precisely the Government's policy.

The impetus behind the amendment would weaken the forces of detente, as would the proposal by the national executive committee of the Labour Party for an additional cut of £1,000 million-plus. My hon. Friends will know that I resigned from the working party because I did not believe that it took into consideration the strategic and economic implications. I am pleased to say that the document was not endorsed by the Labour Party conference. It was brought forward as a discussion document and no decision was taken on it.

I do not believe that a recommendation of that sort would be carried by the Labour Party, not only because it would weaken our contribution to defence and, therefore, to detente but because it is profoundly wrong. It would lead to the danger which I hope that the Government's policy will avoid—namely, war.