Scotland and Wales Bill

Part of Schedule – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 25 January 1977.

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Photo of Mr Stanley Thorne Mr Stanley Thorne , Preston South 12:00, 25 January 1977

Yes, I am in favour of it for the United Kingdom as a whole. I am trying to keep to the terms of this Bill because you, Sir Myer, have a habit of calling hon. Members to order if they stray too wide.

There are those who would argue that I should not be in favour of PR because it might affect my job, and I know that many hon. Members look at it in that way. But it is irrelevant whether it affects our jobs. To me the basic question is which is the more democratic of the two systems. Should we advocate the first past the post system or proportional representation for representation of this Chamber? As far as possible, the systems we create should represent the opinions outside, and I tend to accept that the latter is more democratic than the former.

In the final analysis it seems to me that many of us who claim to be on the left wing of the Labour Party will be judged by time and history in accordance with whether we were prepared to accept the more democratic system, even though there was, perhaps, an initial price to be paid. Nevertheless we should accept it on the basis that it is more democratic.

To many members of my own party this is a simplistic and naive approach. I cannot escape the notions that I have about this matter. I believe that PR is more democratic, and I claim to be a democrat. Therefore, logically, I must accept the amendment on PR. Whether the system being advocated in Amendment No. 50 is the best is very difficult to determine in the short run, but it has the virtue of being something which can be easily and readily applied with the passing of this Bill, and the opportunity exists thereafter to introduce other means of reaching a satisfactory conclusion.

I should have liked personally to see the STV system but at this stage of the discussions on the Bill it is not possible, and on that basis I shall vote for the amendment.