Devolution (Scotland and Wales)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 19 January 1976.

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Photo of Mr Arthur Blenkinsop Mr Arthur Blenkinsop , South Shields 12:00, 19 January 1976

We have listened with a great deal of interest to a vigorous speech from the right hon. Member for Sidcup (Mr. Heath). I do not think he will take it as being impolite if I say that I prefer the speeches that he has delivered from his present position in the Chamber. I do not, however, altogether accept his judgment. He appears to be suggesting that we should move to something that is too near to a federation altogether for my liking.

I do not think that we in this House should accept the view, however sincerely some of the Scots may hold it, that they have been disadvantaged by their association with us over the years. I contest that view vigorously. The speech of the Paymaster-General this afternoon blew that concept sky high.

I do not think that it helps anyone to move forward on the basis of pure illusion, and to do anything to encourage that illusion will help none of us in this House or outside. I hope very much, therefore, that when we examine the problem, and above all when we consider the need to look at it from the point of view of the United Kingdom as a whole—as I am sure the right hon. Gentleman wishes us to do—we shall not encourage the growth of illusions, however sincerely held they may be.

Throughout the debate there has been an understandable anxiety—the right hon. Gentleman himself properly expressed it —about the danger of the effect of concessions to nationalists. This could lead us down the road to separatism. I think that we all fear and are anxious about this, apart from a very small minority for whom separatism maybe the undeclared object.

We recognise, as the right hon. Gentleman said, that there is a real demand for a more effective voice for the people of Scotland and Wales—and, I believe, for the people in other parts of the United Kingdom, too.

I live in the North and was born on the English side of the border. The problems that affect us in the North of England are very much those that affect people on the other side of the border.

The right hon. Gentleman listed the industries upon which Scotland has had to rely in the past. These are the heavy industries, which are declining in some respects. They are precisely the industries upon which we rely in the North-East of England, and upon which many rely in the North-West as well. Scotland's problems in relation to shipbuilding, ship repair, coal and the other main heavy industries, are very much our problems in the North of England.

My plea to the House, therefore, is that above all we should take our decisions about the future in a United Kingdom context and not give even the impression of merely coming to decisions under the pressure of strong and very real emotions of a nationalist kind.