Oral Answers to Questions — European Secondary Legislation

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 3 November 1975.

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Photo of Mr Graham Page Mr Graham Page , Crosby 12:00, 3 November 1975

I want to follow very closely what the hon. Member for Berwick and East Lothian (Mr. Mackintosh) said. He has almost taken the words out of my mouth, because I was going to say that it has emerged from this debate that, to deal with the merits of European secondary legislation, neither the Select Committee, as we know it at present, nor the Standing Committee, according to our Standing Orders, is satisfactory.

I do not think anybody could pretend that the Standing Committees dealing with Statutory Instruments have been a grand success. When I have intervened—as I have when matters of validity of orders and legal matters concerning orders have been involved—I have found the Standing Committees almost deserted. They have not attracted the attention of hon. Members of the House. I cannot, therefore, feel that it is really a good precedent to use for the very important primary legislation with which we are dealing, although it happens to be called European secondary legislation. My hope is that we shall be a little bolder and devise a Committee specially for this work.

A Select Committee has the advantage that it can take evidence. It is also a continuing Committee, as the hon. Member for Berwick and East Lothian has said. It can make any report it chooses. It is not bound as to the sort of report it makes to the House. But it has the disadvantage that, under our rules, its deliberations are in private, it is restricted to the members of the Select Committee, and other Members cannot join in.

The normal Standing Committee, as we know it under Standing Orders, has the benefit that other Members can join in its deliberations—they can join in, but they cannot vote. But it has the disadvantage as has been said, that it is unable to call evidence.

It has been said again and again in this debate that a Committee dealing with the merits of European secondary legislation would at that stage perhaps need further evidence. When we are dealing with European secondary legislation, after it has been processed through the Scrutiny Committee, there may be need, on occasions for additional evidence to be given. In short, as our rules stand at present, a Select Committee is very restricted in its deliberations; a Standing Committee, on the other hand, has the benefit of extended deliberation, by which I mean the attendance of other Members, but it is restricted in regard to taking evidence.

Can we not be a little bolder and devise a form of committee to meet all the points brought forward in the debate today? I feel that the Select Committee on Procedure, in its recommendations to the House, and the Government themselves, have been too hidebound by our present procedure. We are dealing with something entirely new in legislative form. There is no reason why we should not devise our own process for dealing with it.

The hon. Member for Farnworth (Mr. Roper) suggested a Select Committee to deal with the merits. I do not think that a Select Committee, according to our rules, is satisfactory for that purpose, and I do not think that a Standing Committee is satisfactory, either.

Let us put those suggestions in abeyance for the time being and think again, to see whether we can devise our own special form of committee to deal with this new type of legislation.