First, I would like to say how much I agree with much that the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (Mr. Sandelson) had to say. Towards the end of my speech I may have words to utter on the content of his remarks.

I vastly welcome the opportunity of making what I hope will be a short contribution to this debate, first as a Member who has the honour of representing a garrison town in Parliament and secondly as a former Minister for the Royal Navy. I would be grateful if we could have, perhaps at once but, it not, at a later stage, an indication when we are to have the various debates which will be forthcoming in due course on the Service Estimates, because I hereby warn the Government that I have a considerable number of Constituency points which I propose to save for that occasion and also a considerable number of "Navy" points which I shall seek to raise in due course. I hope that we shall have tonight an indication when these debates are to take place.

I shall raise at the outset one matter relative to my constituency. It is the only specifically constituency point that I shall make. It relates to the military hospital at Colchester. I say to the Minister who is to reply that I regard it as having been an exercise in tactlessness and stupidity that in the white paper the Government should have announced that the hospital at Colchester … can be closed, once alternative arrangements have been completed to provide cover for the Servicemen and their families in the area. This hospital in Colchester does a magnificent job not only for Service personnel but for many of my constituents who are civilians, who have given to them the opportunity of admirable treatment there.

I asked a Question on this subject the other day but the Under-Secretary of State for Defence for the army in effect gave a nil reply. This decision, reversing a decision which we on this side made when in Government—when I extracted a guarantee from my Army colleagues down the corridor that this hospital would remain open for 10 years. The decision to close it, made without local consultation or any consultation at all, when provision is made for Service personnel and which makes no mention at all of providing for civil personnel in my constituency who benefit from the existence of this hospital and receive splendid service from the Royal Army Medical Corps, is a wrong one. This closure will also have a profound effect on the career structure of the RAMC. I hope that something will be said by the Minister who concludes the debate this evening on this matter, which affects those in my constituency, Service men and civilians alike.

I turn to the broader aspects of the defence review. The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington seems to think that his Government have now got it absolutely right. My recollection is that he thought the same when the White Paper was first produced. I would remind him that he cannot have it both ways. In an earlier debate it was stated that the Defence White Paper, when it came out, was right. Elaborate processes had been gone through. A terrible error was made by the Secretary of State in suggesting that the Chiefs of Staff had gone along with what he said. It was a terrible, grave, constitutional error and I am glad to say it has not been repeated.

Now we are considering a White Paper in the light of a further cut of £110 million. Hon. Gentlemen opposite constantly castigated us for making relatively small cuts, thus not getting a long-term viable programme on defence, a criticism which had some validity. But now hon. Gentlemen opposite are doing the same thing. We had a long-drawn-out review and a decision was arrived at, and within a few weeks we have another £110 million lopped off defence. What a devastating effect this must have on the morale of those who wish to have a career in the Services. The cuts were not right then. I believe that the Government went too far in defence cuts as originally announced in the White Paper. But with the additional £110 million it is quite clear that the cuts go too far.

Schizophrenia is a dangerous disease when found in a person. My hon. Friend the Member for Ayr (Mr. Younger) the other day described the Secretary of State as being like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. The schizophrenia which is afflicting the Government is certainly made very apparent from the White Paper now before us. In that paper, splendidly prepared by the Departments with all the skill and expertise with which some of us are familiar, Chapter II sets out the menace confronting the country. There is set out what we as a nation, and as part of NATO, have to deal with in terms of the balance of power throughout the world.

Perhaps we can pause for a moment to look at one or two of the highlights in that part of the White Paper. The right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell), whom I am glad to see in his place, in his most interesting contribution to the debate, indicated, as I understood him—and I will read his speech with care tomorrow—thatestimates must always be arbitrary. I see the right hon. Gentleman nod in agree ment. They are always arbitrary, he said, making the point that they should not be irrational.

In his interesting speech he went on to say that in this sphere we have not found firm ground. I am sorry that we did not find firm ground in the period when he was Shadow Secretary of State for Defence. I remember hearing him speak on this issue in the past. It is difficult to get to the firm ground in this sphere. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will co-operate with some of us who are interested in defence in trying to do a fundamental analysis such as the Government have singularly failed to do in their Defence White Paper.

The right hon. Gentleman is right, as are other speakers, in indicating that this has not been a fundamental review. There has been a party conference commitment to bring spending down approximately to that of our NATO allies. There is no suggestion in the White Paper that the arbitrary figures must be wrong. I hope that those on this side of the House who are sympathetic to an analysis of this kind will do what hon. Gentlemen opposite have failed to do—and with the help of the splendid analysis of the menace set out in Chapter II.

Let us consider what is said in relation to manpower. It is said that there are 30 per cent. to 40 per cent. more in the fighting units in the Warsaw Pact countries, excluding those in Russia, than in those of the West. That is the problem. What is the Government's response to this? Is it to go to Lancaster House with the Secretary of State—as Chairman, I am glad to say, of the Eurogroup—and say, "We have this terrible disparity from the manpower point of view. Despite our great economic difficulties, we do not intend to reduce our manpower."

In fact, the Government's response to this manpower disparity of 30 per cent. to 40 per cent. in NATO countries, is to make manpower cuts of 15,000 men in the Army and to cut out one Royal Marine Commando. It does not make sense. I do not suggest that the Secretary of State went to Lancaster House today naked. I would not like to see him streaking down Pall Mall. But he went severely cut about by the tribute which has been exacted from him by the Tribune Group; by the sacrifices which he has had to make because of the pressures of Labour hon. Gentlemen below the Gangway.

The right hon. Gentleman had to go to Lancaster House saying that we are making unilateral cuts—because there are no corresponding cuts by the Warsaw Pact countries. That is the Government's response to the manpower disparity—a further cut in our manpower. I would imagine that the right hon. Member for Down, South would be worried by that because although we hope that the continuing commitment in Northern Ireland can be cut down, while this process of the scaling-down of forces goes on there must be an effect on the number of tours of duty served by units for the next year or so. That is disturbing.

I come to Chapter II of the White Paper and to the naval threat, which is so severe. Since the Cuban crisis of 1961 there has been a massive build-up of Soviet vessels with the mighty Admiral Gorshkov, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Fleet, making sure that never again will the Russians have to undergo the humiliation of turning ships back from whence they came at the behest of the American Government.

What is the Government's response? It is a cut in the naval building programme. Does that make sense? The Government's response is wholly lunatic. They have set out in Chapter II the tremendous problems confronting the NATO Alliance. Their response is to say, "We shall cut unilaterally". What a terrible effect this is likely to have on the MBFR talks. The diagnosis is that some exercise is needed. But the doctor says to the patient, "Every time you feel like exercise I want you to lie down until the feeling wears off." That is an appropriate simile.

The Government have analysed the problem in Chapter II and have then said to the nation, "You can safely ignore these problems. Despite what confronts us we can make unilateral cuts." It is a dangerous policy in view of the menace from abroad and also because of the increased menace internally. We have seen what has happened in Glasgow and elsewhere. In the last resort we have had to call on the Armed Forces to assist us in the maintenance of law and order.

This is no time for us to be cutting down on trained manpower, on men who are dedicated to the preservation of law and order and to the preservation of our society as we know it. It is no time for such cuts as were announced in the White Paper and it is certainly no time for the further cuts that have been made.