European Community Secondary Legislation

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 24 January 1974.

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Photo of Mr John Mackintosh Mr John Mackintosh , Berwickshire and East Lothian 12:00, 24 January 1974

That is not very satisfactory. I do not wish to make this a difficult debate, but this is a central issue. I shall proceed and assume that we are being offered six days. I hope that I am wrong and that we are being offered 25 days. If that is so, I do not understand how that number of days can be fitted in.

My major point is that it is unsatisfactory that all matters coming from the European Community should be placed into two categories, namely, those which are of major political importance and which must come on to the Floor and those which are of lesser importance, which will not be debated or considered at all. Many regulations and directives coming from Europe are not of an immediate combustible character. That means that they will not come on to the Floor of the House because they do not relate to juggernauts or rises in beef prices. Nevertheless, they are of considerable importance to the sector of British life which they affect. It is that type of important but not crucial political matter which is going by default under the procedure set out in the report. It is that which is so unfortunate.

There are other reasons which make the procedure unsatisfactory. If we adopt this procedure we will pick up items from Europe that seem to one side or the other to be embarrassing or upsetting and we shall have a thrash about. That will not provide for a deep understanding by the House of the regular output of legislation, regulations and directives from Europe to which we should direct our minds. It is an important function to inform the electorate and to help those groups of people involved, for example, in farming, fishing industry and trade who must work with the regulations. Such groups must understand such legislation, and often they pick it up only as it is described in trade journals and magazines following a specialised debate in the House.

The way in which we would tackle such matters if they came on to the Floor of the House would be in the same way as we tackle major conflicts between Government and Opposition—namely. there would basically be an attacking position by the Opposition. That would place the Government in a peculiar position which is not analagous to their position inside British domestic politics. The Government might not always seek to defend something coming up in a few months' time. As has been said, the Government may be in favour of changing or altering such matters. The procedure is not exactly satisfactory, in that an assault would be launched by the Opposition and the Government would be saying, "We can only half agree. We do not know whether we agree. We want room to negotiate." At that stage the time factor referred to by my right hon. Friend the Member for Stepney is introduced.

The great difficulty facing procedure in the House is that the House can make only negative attacks on what comes out of Europe. One of the great problems of the Common Market is not what it does but some of the things which it does not do. The procedure is to wait for things to happen and then to complain about them. That does not allow the House to inform itself and to play the rôle of a pressure group demanding action. I believe that we should demand action in some situations.

I shall take and build upon the interesting point made by my right hon. Friend when he said that in the European situation the British executive becomes a Parliament. What will be the rôle of Parliament in that situation? In such circumstances Parliament's rôle will become that of a pressure group, in that it will urge legislation to take a certain course. However, that type of pressure cannot arise. If we are to have six, eight or 10 days on the Floor of the House there will be the opportunity only for a quasi-clash between an Opposition attacking and a Government not knowing how far to say they agree or disagree.

We come to the critical question of the way in which we should equip the House, on looking around the continental legislatures to see how they are equipped, to be able to scrutinise those important items that are not sufficiently vital to reach the Floor of the House but which do matter. Secondly, how do we inform the House and those Members who take a specialised interest in the regular activities of the Common Market, so that they can make positive as well as negative proposals to the Government?

How do we get over the problem of pressing the Government continuously but not necessarily pinning them in the middle of negotiations? I suggest that the only method—and here I am afraid I disagree with the right hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton—is through an adequate committee system. It is only if we have a series of committees of this House, to which are referred regulations and directives not sufficiently important to come to the Floor of the House, that we can get adequate debate, understandable questioning and a continuous back pressure on the Government on behalf of those directly affected by such matters.

I do not suggest anything elaborate. If we had a Select Committee on agriculture and fisheries, one on industrial problems, including the regions, and one on trade and commerce, it would be quite adequate at the moment. These committees would take matters which were not controversial in a major sense but were vital to sectors of British life.