Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 12 December 1973.
Mr Tam Dalyell
, West Lothian
12:00,
12 December 1973
What has happened to OPMACC? Although it is understandable that this military aid operation to the civil community might be run down in a situation of acute shortage of forces, once our troops return from Northern Ireland we should go back to the work started by Sir Derek Lang in remote parts of the country in what might be a post-Ireland situation.
Those of us who are interested in Service recruitment view with alarm the re-engagement figures, particularly for warrant officers and ncos. May we have the Minister's reflections on that?
In passing, I shall touch on a subject raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, North (Mr. Edelman). What are the implications of the oil shortage for industry and the military world as a whole? This is a new situation. To give a trivial example, the week before last the Sunday Mail commented on helicopters flying from the carrier to Arbroath and back at a time of fuel shortage. What instructions has the Department given for saving fuel, particularly that used by voracious eaters of fuel such as helicopters?
Coming back to the old subject of the through-deck cruiser, just as in churches and cathedrals there is a tabulated list showing that a certain amount has been given towards certain funds and so much more is wanted, I suggest that outside the yard where the through-deck cruiser is being built there should be erected a notice board giving monthly estimates of the cost. The cost started at £70 million, went up to £75 million. £85 million, £90 million, £100 million. The Government front bench then assented to £110 million. The latest figure I have is at least £120 million.
When I asked the Prime Minister about the public sector borrowing requirement he said that it was serious but that public expenditure in the years 1974–75 and 1975–76 would start to come down. We shall believe that when we see it. Granted that the MRCA, Sea Wolf and the through-deck cruiser are maturing, there is a public expenditure crisis in the Defence Department alone. That will have serious implications for the Government's overall strategy, particularly in the defence budget, and a decision must be made soon on the next two through-deck cruisers.
In company with several admirals, such as Sir Ian McGeoch—to whom I may refer as he has retired—I wonder whether it is sensible to have these enormously expensive ships which in the opinion of both young and old naval officers to whom I have spoken are very vulnerable. There is a Division of opinion in the Admiralty whether it is sensible to have a ship that can be knocked out by a fairly simple and inexpensive weapon. I should like to have the Minister's reflection on that.
The first bench on either side of the House of Commons, reserved for ministers and leaders of the principal political parties.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
