I beg to move Amendment No. 1, in Clause 1, page 1, line 12, leave out subsection (2).

The purpose of the amendment is to exempt electricity supply from the sweeping ministerial control which is proposed to be imposed upon it by this legislation. That these are sweeping powers the Committee need have no doubt.

The purpose of the Bill is to enable the Secretary of State to control the production, supply, and acquisition of petroleum and other fuels.

Electricity is referred to in the second part of Clause 1, and the proposal is to control its "production, supply and use". I notice with interest that the Explanatory and Financial Memorandum uses the words that I have just mentioned. In the electricity supply industry one normally talks about the generation, distribution and utilisation of electricity. But the wording of the proposed legislation refers to the control of its "production, supply and use". No doubt the Minister will confirm, one way or the other, when he replies that the meaning is the same. The intention appears to be for the Minister to have control over the whole process of electricity supply from the terminals of the generator through to the terminals of the ultimate consumer.

This great industry, which is basic to our economy, the greatest single user of capital in British industry ; an industry nationalised for many years now and for which Parliament has established 16 public corporations in Great Britain and one in Northern Ireland—because the scope of the Bill extends to Northern Ireland—and made elaborate provisions for its organisation and management, is to be handed over to the virtual dictatorship of the Secretary of State until 30th November 1974, and perhaps beyond, because certain reserve powers are included in the Bill. The Secretary of State may decide where and how much electricity may be produced and to whom it may be supplied. Therefore, in one stroke, all the detailed legislative safeguards for domestic, commercial and industrial consumers, and the quality and continuity of supply, are to be set aside.

The Committee will be aware that the technical staff in electricity supply have been much criticised, certainly by Ministers, for their industrial action and for deciding themselves what duties they will perform out of normal working hours. They are in conflict with the Government over a claim for certain agreed out-of-hours payments which they argue should be honoured, but on which the Government argue otherwise. Therefore, the technical staff, organised by the Electrical Power Engineers' Association are determining the conditions and priorities of supply and they are now in control of the situation. This had and is bound to have the effect of occasionally resulting in the cessation of supplies.

I suggest, however, that under the terms of the Bill consumers of electricity are now at much greater risk from the Secretary of State than from the technical staff because the right hon. Gentleman, through this measure, proposes to take away from the electricity supply industry its normal obligation to maintain continuity of supply. If consumers of electricity lose their supply, and it is not reconnected it will be very hard for them to decide who is responsible—the technical staffs or the Secretary of State. Under these powers the Minister may also, apparently, instruct an engineer or other employee to discontinue a supply if he wishes. He will become a virtual dictator. If such a situation occurs, I hope that the Minister will make it clear that it is he who is doing it and not the Electrical Power Engineers' Association. Once this measure has been passed, which will probably be quite soon, the electricity boards will be relieved of any obligation to maintain continuity of supply and the Minister can determine whether consumers receive electricity or otherwise.

I object to these powers. For all my political life I have advocated the public ownership of utilities and, in general, the basic industries. But I have never believed that those industries should be controlled and run by Ministers and civil servants. I do not know whether that view is fully shared by all of my hon. Friends, but that has consistently been my view. I believe that publicly-owned industries, at every level, should be run by those with the knowledge, training and experience which make them the best qualified to do that. No longer will that be so, apparently, for a year.

What can happen when Ministers attempt, through officials, to run complicated and advanced technology industries of this kind was illustrated, as the Minister knows very well, only a couple of weeks ago. Under the emergency powers which the Government took to themselves, the Department of Trade and Industry drew up an order which they placed before the House. That was an order for the control of electric space heating in all its forms. I confess that I gasped when I read that order. It seemed to be completely impracticable. It banned all electric heating as it was at first drafted, both on-peak and off-peak heating. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of the operation of power stations would know that such a ban was more likely to waste fuel than to save it. Great power stations cannot be placed on and off like kettles on the hob. That was not understood in the Department, apparently. I raised the matter when the Home Secretary was introducing these powers. I asked him whether there had been consultation with the electricity supply industry, and he said that he was sure that there had been consultation. He just did not know, but he gave that answer. Later on in the same debate we had the sequel. The Minister for Industry had to confess that there had been no consultation and that the order as drafted was a nonsense. The order had to be substantially revised.

This does not augur well for the powers which the Minister is now taking to himself. Apparently in the future he is to run the industry, rather than those who were appointed under the statute to operate it. Therefore, what guarantee does the Com- mittee or the electricity supply industry have that more blunders of this kind will not be made in the future, either out of sheer ignorance, which appears to have been the case on the previous occasion, or out of a conviction of right hon. Gentlemen on the Treasury Bench that they always know best?

8.15 p.m.

I do not wish to argue that circumstances do not arise in which Ministers must take special powers to deal with special situations. But if such powers are taken they should be limited in duration and should be subject, at every stage, to the closest parliamentary scrutiny. When we discuss the other amendments, we shall be arguing the matter of duration and for just how long this business is to continue, whether it can be modified and changed, and whether it can be indefinitely extended. But apart from the question of duration in the matter of powers of this kind, the powers should also be limited in scope and extent. The Secretary of State should not say to himself "I will take in everything, because that is the easiest thing to do." He should exercise some economy in his thoughts on these matters and take in only as much as is necessary, and nothing beyond that.

Therefore, the case for not including electricity supply is strong. After all, subsections 1(a) and (b) of the clause control the primary resources from which electricity is devised. As I understand it—no doubt the Minister will confirm this later—subsection 1(a) and (b) give ministerial control over coal, which is the greatest single source in the making of electricity, over oil and over uranium. It gives control in fact over all the primary resources. We get a little electricity in the United Kingdom from hydro power. I think that this also is controlled by the Bill, although I have not given a lot of thought to that. As I read then the Bill, the Minister has control over the primary resources from which electricity is derived—coal, oil and uranium. Electricity, as such, although hardly a substance—it cannot be seen, but under some circumstances it can certainly be felt—is a secondary energy source. It is as a secondary energy source that it transfers the primary energy to the point of use.

Therefore, why is there this desire on the part of the Secretary of State to rule everything by a virtual decree? Why does he want such an enormous empire of control? What is the real intention behind it? Are there any precedents for it? I cannot remember precedents. Has the Secretary of State brought in electricity with coal because he brackets the miners' perfectly proper refusal to work overtime with the power engineers' equally proper decision to decide their out-of-hours working? Does the Secretary of State automatically bracket the two? Does he feel that he must have control of electricity because of the labour situation? I hope that that is an unworthy assertion on my part. But these are sweeping powers and the Minister can decide what he will direct, which must include individuals.

Is it the intention that, if there were further industrial action in the electricity supply industry, he will take power to introduce outside labour or contract labour? The Secretary of the State, or the Minister for Industrial Development who will speak for him, will probably say that nothing could be farther from their minds. But they should clear up this issue because they could have all the control they needed, if they were content with the primary sources, without moving on to the universal secondary source. The more I study this Bill the more I think the Opposition should have divided against it. As it was, we let it go through, but it is a most objectionable Bill and it needs a tremendous amount of justification. The Minister should put up a very powerful case on the Government's behalf to the Committee for including electricity supply in the present Clause.