Orders of the Day — MUSEUMS AND GALLERIES ADMISSION CHARGES BILL [Lords]

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 25 January 1972.

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Photo of Mr William Hannan Mr William Hannan , Glasgow Maryhill 12:00, 25 January 1972

In extenuation of the Bill, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Waver-tree (Mr. Tilney) did not argue his personal point of view about charges but sought to suggest that, because those who visited Russian institutions were charged, this was a very good example for us to follow. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman would take the same view about how they came by those pictures and riches or the palaces and buildings in which they are housed. We should surely follow our own practice.

One of the points at issue is that the Government are taking powers in Clause 1(2) to destroy agreements made in the past. This is one of the most forbidding features of these proposals, and this should be considered by all hon. Members as a shabby and mean-spirited little Bill.

It is astonishing that a Government who said that there would be less government but better government, and less interference with any public bodies, should go to the lengths that they have to strain the law, in Scotland particularly, to gain their point. I was rather sad for the Lord Advocate today. He is one of the most respected Members of this House and in Scottish Committees he discharges his duties with a gentlemanly conduct and a legal knowledge which very few possess. It was a shame to put a man of his calibre in the position of avoiding the issue altogether. Ignoring our opinions about the issue of charges, he made it clear that he was dealing only with the mechanics by which the money was to be extracted.

The Bill empowers trustees to tax visitors to specified museums and, because this power does not exist in Scotland, the Government are straining the law. This is obvious from looking at the Ways and Means Motion on the Order Paper today in the name of the Financial Secretary. Irrespective of whether the governors and trustees of these institutions have power to make admission charges, the Government are saying that they shall have such power, whether or not they want it.

To what noble end is all this contraption and legal frummery being directed? The purpose is the raising of a miserable £1 million—it is being done in the name of what hon. Gentlemen opposite call enlightened government. In fact this is the Paymaster's contribution to the statements that have been made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his mini-Budgets. Despite the resistance behind closed doors that has obviously been made against this charging proposal by the trustees of the various museums; despite the way in which magnanimous donors have made gifts to museums, laying down rigid terms about how they should be put on public view, the Government have persisted in their detestable policy.

In considering this matter, one must examine the grasping results of Treasury action in other social services. An intelligent guess has been made by some of my hon. Friends about the reason why the right hon. Lady the Secretary of State for Education and Science has been absent for a large part of the debate. It seems clear she has not been here to introduce this miserable little Bill because she is unhappy about it.

I am glad to see the right hon. Lady in her place at least to hear me explain how, for example, milk charges were imposed supposedly to enable more primary schools to be built and how health charges were levied so that the extra cost of prescriptions could supposedly provide more hospital accommodation. Many other examples could be given of the policies of hon. Gentlemen opposite.

It it argued in support of the Measure—this argument was used by the Paymaster in another place—that, if money is obtained from visitors to museums and art galleries, this will enhance the chances of getting more money for these institutions from the Treasury. I agree that more money is needed for this purpose, but not by this method, for there is a distinction between this and other services, an aspect to which I will come later.

How does the Scottish Office come into this and what is their part in this sordid deal? We in the City of Glasgow yield to nobody in praising our museum, which is an excellent institution containing, among other things, one of the finest collections of French paintings. It compares well with any other museum, in London or elsewhere.

What advice did the Secretary of State receive from the trustees of the various museums? Is it not a fact that all of them—not 90 per cent. but 100 per cent. of them—are still, as they have been all along, strongly opposed to the Bill? The Lord Advocate is no doubt supported by the Scottish Whip, and I am glad to see the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Education at the Scottish Office, the hon. Member for Dumfries (Mr. Monro) in attendance. He and some of his colleagues cannot be in agreement with the aims of this miserable and cheap little Bill.

For how long did the various trustees, and perhaps some Scottish hon. Gentlemen opposite, struggle against the imposition of charges which this Measure proposes to enforce? Or are we to conclude that they acted like the typist about whom the question was asked "How did the struggling typist get her fur coat?" The answer was "She ceased to struggle". The Government got this far with the Bill without any real opposition from their supporters on the benches opposite.

Certain figures were adduced in another place about the administrative costs of trying to recover the £1 million with which the Bill is concerned. May we be given the figures? For example, how many more employees will be required in Scottish museums to collect this money?