Orders of the Day — Defence

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 2 March 1971.

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Photo of Mr Bonner Pink Mr Bonner Pink , Portsmouth South 12:00, 2 March 1971

I should like first of all to congratulate the Prime Minister on his clear exposition of the present position and his comprehensive review. I regret that the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton (Dr. David Owen) did not make an equally useful and valuable contribution. Instead, he devoted so much of his time to making a partisan speech and had to repeat the red herring introduced yesterday, that the Secretary of State does not sit in this House. I will not follow the hon. Gentleman, because I am not clear what he was trying to prove, apart from making petty party political points.

I listened most attentively to yesterday's debate, and I am rather surprised that one of the main criticisms was that we were not increasing expenditure. The Opposition seem befuddled with the idea that, by just spending more money, one will get better and stronger Services. That is not necessarily true, especially in defence. At the moment, I see little point in spending more money, as the limiting factor in defence today is not money but manpower. There is no point in spending more money on equipment if the men are not there to use it. What the present Government have done is use the available manpower to the best advantage.

I congratulate the Government on reaching agreement with Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia and Singapore on a military presence in South-East Asia, on their policy for the Gulf, on selling maritime arms to South Africa and on reaching agreement with Nepal on the Gurkhas. All these achievements mean freeing United Kingdom troops so that we can better cover existing commitments with existing manpower.

I also congratulate the Minister on the White Paper, as a factual account of our defences and proposals in the near future. Unfortunately, of course, the White Paper reveals many deficiencies and weaknesses, but it shows a realistic approach by the Services to current problems. It is no longer true to say that the Services are preparing for the next war by training for the last. I am particularly pleased that the Government have confirmed their intention to maintain a presence in South-East Asia and have successfully concluded arrange- ments in the Five-Power Pact for integrated and balanced forces in this area, as this will undoubtedly help stability.

We cannot, of course, stay in any area unless we are wanted, but both Malaysia and Singapore told us last autumn that they wanted us to maintain a presence in that area for at least the next five to ten years, because of the scarcity of their technicians, experienced N.C.O.s and senior officers—a scarcity which only time, of course, can cure. They may need advice and technical help for quite a long time.

The right hon. Member for Dundee, East (Mr. George Thomson) spoke about racial disturbances in South-East Asia, but we were assured by the Malaysians and Singaporeans that they are capable of maintaining internal security now against infiltration, but not aggression, from outside.

It is satisfactory that the Government have reached agreement with Nepal over the strength of the Gurkhas, as those troops are most valuable in Hong Kong and the Far East. But I am concerned about the supply position to Hong Kong following the rundown in Singapore. Can the Minister assure the House that base supplies for an emergency will be available in Singapore or Australia and that Hong Kong will not have to rely on supplies from the United Kingdom? The White Paper covers the supply to Singapore after the rundown, but it does not mention Hong Kong.

Yesterday, much emphasis was placed on the Indian Ocean and the Gulf. There can be no doubt that this is a serious and growing problem, but experience has shown that the Russians have not tried to get into any area where we have a presence, however small, but that, as soon as we leave a strategic area, the Russians move in. There is a good example in Hong Kong. There, we have comparatively small forces of five infantry battalions and one artillery regiment facing two or three divisions in Red China.

No one pretends that, if China wanted to move into Hong Kong, it could not do so but China knows that, if she wants Hong Kong, she can get it but only by fighting for it. This is in contrast with nearby Macao. The Portuguese there made no attempt to defend it. The Chinese have moved in, and, to all intents and purposes, it is now a Chinese possession.

I would welcome an extension of bases in the Indian Ocean, in Mauritius for example, but in addition to and not in place of other bases. It would, however, be unrealistic to think that we could undertake additional bases with our present manpower situation. As my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Carshalton (Captain W. Elliot) said yesterday, 75 per cent. of Europe's oil goes around the Cape, so perhaps we could persuade our European friends to take more interest in the Indian Ocean and join us in that direction.

The basic problem in our defences is manpower. We are all glad to know that recruiting has improved. While that is largely due to better pay and conditions, the Government can take credit for clearly indicating to the Services that there is a worth-while long-term career in the forces, and the rate of re-engagement indicates that the Services appreciate this.

Attention is rightly drawn in the White Paper to the effects of raising the school-leaving age. Agreement should, and could. be reached between the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Education to enable recruits to join at 15 and still continue their education. This does not seem to need any change of principle because for a considerable time junior officers have attended university full-time, and now we see from the White Paper that City and Guilds Certificates are being awarded to P.Os. and leading ratings. This principle could, I believe, be extended.

I am particularly pleased to see that attention is being paid to the serious problem of the rehabilitation of families from Singapore who are being sent home in advance of their men. Both husbands and wives were worried about how the wives would cope on their own, with finding accommodation, looking after the furnishings, finding schools and the many family problems which arise when wives do not have their husbands with them to help. I am sure that the emphasis which the White Paper gives about the Ministry of Defence realising these problems and taking steps to deal with them will have a great effect on recruiting and re-engagement.

I am concerned over the strength of the Royal Navy because it takes longer to build up this Service than any other. For example, it takes longer to build ships than tanks or aircraft. I am concerned when I see that no more Polaris submarines are on order or projected. Of our existing four, one is undergoing a long refit, and obviously the remaining three can maintain only one, and occasionally two, at sea continuously. We should have a fifth Polaris submarine so that we could always have two, and often three, at sea at once.

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Sir R. Thompson) I am pleased to see that the design of the through-deck cruiser has started. I hope the Minister will be able to tell the House when the first ship is expected to be in commission and whether that will occur before the carriers are phased out. I am pleased also to note that a new general purpose frigate is being designed. Is close contact being maintained with the designers of the Amazon class in this connection?

I welcome the statement that Portsmouth Dockyard will be fully employed within the next year and I hope the Minister will assure us that there will be no further rundown in employment in this area. I renew my plea that the Department should place a contract for the building of a ship in Portsmouth Dockyard. It is a great boost to morale to see a ship started at the keel plate, finally to see it slide down the ways as a complete entity. I assure my right hon. Friend that if he places an order he will not regret it. Portsmouth ships are well and quickly built. They are completed on time and at an economic price.