General Principles

Part of Orders of the Day — Industrial Relations Bill – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 18 January 1971.

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Photo of Mr Robert Carr Mr Robert Carr , Mitcham 12:00, 18 January 1971

I cannot give way, because I want to come to the end of my speech.

We are saying that if we appoint any form of arbitrating or conciliating body the national interests must be taken into account. What happened when the right hon. Lady was in power? She issued a White Paper and, as I understood the position, under her policy arbitrators and courts of inquiry were ordered to read and take into account the criterion in that White Paper. Many of the claims which have been settled since this Government came to office—not that of the Post Office workers—were launched and were far advanced in their prosecution before the right hon. Lady left office. Had they gone to arbitration, they could have done so only on the basis of the arbitrators having to take account of a White Paper which laid down maximum amounts far below what the employers had offered, and against which strikes were threatened. If that was not a case of trying to influence arbitrators, I do not know what was.

I do not say that the right hon. Lady and the then Government were wrong in what they did, because I believe that any Government must, and the country must demand that any Government will, request that in the process of collective bargaining the national interest as a whole should be taken into account, as well as the narrow interests of the parties concerned in the bargain. I believe, too, that when collective bargaining unfortunately breaks down and one is faced with a strike, or the threat of a strike, when one is faced with the need for conciliation or arbitration, then the Government should say to those who have to arbitrate or conciliate that one of the factors which must be taken into account is the national interest as a whole. I do not believe that that is inconsistent with the best possible approach to free collective bargaining. I believe that it is possible in a world which is no doubt imperfect but is the one in which we have to live.

The Government cannot accept an Amendment which removes the word "responsibly" from the Bill and appears to wish to introduce, in addition to the word "freely", the phrase "on a voluntary basis", with the implication that that means without regard to the law, or without regard to the public interest as a whole.