Primary School Classes

Oral Answers to Questions — Education and Science – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 11 December 1969.

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Photo of Mr Hugh Rossi Mr Hugh Rossi , Hornsey 12:00, 11 December 1969

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what plans he has for getting rid of every primary school class of over 40 by 1971.

Photo of Mr Edward Short Mr Edward Short , Newcastle upon Tyne Central

The improved supply of teachers and large school building programmes give us the opportunity virtually to solve this problem by the end of the present school year. In a recent circular—16/69—I asked local education authorities to make a special effort during this school year to eliminate oversize primary classes, by adopting the most appropriate measures in each case.

Photo of Mr Hugh Rossi Mr Hugh Rossi , Hornsey

Is the expected growth in the rate support grant sufficient to justify the right hon. Gentleman's optimism? Is it not a question of adequate buildings? Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that there is sufficient in the improvement part of the building programme to bring all the existing primary schools up to the required standard to enable the classes to be reduced to this size?

Photo of Mr Edward Short Mr Edward Short , Newcastle upon Tyne Central

As was pointed out earlier, we have doubled the building programme during the five years this Government have been in office. In the negotiations for the present two-year period for the rate support grant we did not reduce by one teacher the number of teachers the local authorities said they wished to employ. As a result, virtually every teacher who came out of college this year has obtained employment.

Photo of Mr James Tinn Mr James Tinn , Cleveland

I welcome my right hon. Friend's original answer, but does he agree that it is time he reconsidered the figure of 40, which is too high a maximum?

Photo of Mr Edward Short Mr Edward Short , Newcastle upon Tyne Central

Perhaps it has escaped my hon. Friend's notice that I have abolished the regulation which laid down 40 for primary schools and 30 for secondary schools.

Photo of Mr Christopher Ward Mr Christopher Ward , Swindon

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what was the number of primary school classes over 30, and the percentage of primary school pupils in classes over 30, respectively, at the latest available date.

Photo of Miss Alice Bacon Miss Alice Bacon , Leeds South East

In January, 1969, 99,943, and 76·6 per cent., respectively.

Photo of Mr Christopher Ward Mr Christopher Ward , Swindon

Does the right hon. Lady regard those figures as satisfactory? What plans has she to reduce the size of classes further, and by when?

Photo of Miss Alice Bacon Miss Alice Bacon , Leeds South East

The hon. Gentleman's Question refers to classes of 30. My right hon. Friend has been doing everything possible to get rid of classes of over 40. At the time when the hon. Gentleman asked for the information, 9·5 per cent. of primary classes were of over 40, as compared with 10·8 per cent. a year before, which is a more rapid fall than in any other recent year.

Photo of Miss Irene Ward Miss Irene Ward , Tynemouth

As additional teachers are required, and these would probably follow a betterment of the salary structure for teachers, would it not be a good idea if the Secretary of State resigned, so that he could then demonstrate that he was as in favour of helping teachers as I am, thus showing that the Treasury and the Chancellor of the Exchequer are the nigger in the woodpile? Why does not the right hon. Gentleman have his own strike?

Photo of Miss Alice Bacon Miss Alice Bacon , Leeds South East

My right hon. Friend will not resign, and none of us would wish his to resign because he is doing such a good job.