Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve, III

Oral Answers to Questions — Ministry of Defence – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 20 March 1968.

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Photo of Mr James Ramsden Mr James Ramsden , Harrogate 12:00, 20 March 1968

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether, in the light of the recent official United States reappraisal of the need for reserve forces in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, he will now reconsider the decision to disband the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve, Category III.

Photo of Mr Enoch Powell Mr Enoch Powell , Wolverhampton South West

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if, in the light of further assessments of defence needs, he will now reconsider his decision to disband the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve, Category III.

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

No, Sir. As I explained during the recent debate on the Territorial Army we are now discussing with the Council of Territorial and Auxiliary Forces Associations ways and means of putting the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve, Category III on to a care and maintenance basis.

Photo of Mr James Ramsden Mr James Ramsden , Harrogate

Are not two things clear: first, that the British Army will be the only major N.A.T.O. land component without the capability of putting a fresh formation in the field, if need be; and, secondly, that the British Government's thinking on N.A.T.O. strategy is seriously out of step with that of the Americans?

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman has two points clear at least, but they did not seem so clear as he went along. We have a third division in addition to the normal forces assigned to SACEUR, and we have sufficient reserves to make sure those units are up to strength.

Photo of Mr Enoch Powell Mr Enoch Powell , Wolverhampton South West

Will not the British Army be the only army in N.A.T.O. which has no capability of raising new formations in time of war?

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

The British Army will be the only army in N.A.T.O. which has the kind of first-class equipment which is being delivered to it. As the right hon. Gentleman's right hon. Friend will be aware, there are definite limits to the numbers of units which can be got across to Central Europe in the amount of time allowed for in all N.A.T.O. planning

Photo of Sir Francis Pearson Sir Francis Pearson , Clitheroe

Can the Minister say whether the chief constables of counties and boroughs were consulted specifically before the decision to stand this force down?

Photo of Mr James Allason Mr James Allason , Hemel Hempstead

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what would be the cost of retaining the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve, Category III, without pay or allowances.

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

About £2·2 million if other costs remain the same.

Photo of Mr James Allason Mr James Allason , Hemel Hempstead

Is the Minister satisfied that this is a useful saving in view of the loss of this very valuable Reserve at a time when our Regular forces are being reduced?

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

Something up to £3 million is a useful saving. I should not have thought there was any doubt about that. I must stress that the T & AVR III is not a Reserve for the Regular Army.

Photo of Sir Knox Cunningham Sir Knox Cunningham , South Antrim

Why are the Government always trying to knock voluntary service in the forces?

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

As was pointed out in the debate a little while ago, the Territorial Army, or what is now derived from it, still exists in considerable numbers and has better equipment than before. It was knocked in preceding years by being starved of equipment. It was hon. Gentlemen opposite who abolished the R.A.F. Reserve many years before.

Photo of Mr James Ramsden Mr James Ramsden , Harrogate

Has not the British Army been well served in the past by the policy of having a lot of relatively inexpensive Reserves rather than a few pretty expensive ones? Might not, especially in the European context, the situation be reviewed with that in mind?

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

This is completely different from the view that the right hon. Gentleman took only four years ago when he was responsible for running the Army and the Army Reserves. We have in the past had large numbers of men with no equipment for them. The trouble with hon. Gentlemen opposite is that they are always trying to fight the war before last.

Photo of Mr Philip Goodhart Mr Philip Goodhart , Beckenham

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what discussions he has had with members of the Council of the Territorial and Auxiliary Forces Association about the decision to disband the Territorial Army and Volunteer Reserve Category III.

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

I have nothing to add to my statement on 6th March.—[Vol. 760, cols. 466–568.]

Photo of Mr Philip Goodhart Mr Philip Goodhart , Beckenham

In these discussions, will the hon. Gentleman remember that the money being spent on the cancellation charges for the F111 would keep the Territorials at their present level for 20 more years, and that, if he decided to retreat on this front, he would receive much praise?

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

I find it difficult to do mental arithmetic when the amount involved is unknown, as in this case.

Photo of Mr Tufton Beamish Mr Tufton Beamish , Lewes

During these discussions, is the hon. Gentleman bearing in mind the N.A.T.O. Ministerial communiqué of last December to which the Secretary of State subscribed stressing the growing importance of civil emergency planning? How can the disbanding of the Territorial Army be squared with this promise which the right hon. Gentleman must have given in December?

Photo of Mr Gerald Reynolds Mr Gerald Reynolds , Islington North

We discussed this in our debates on Civil Defence and the Territorial Army.