I am saying that the diplomatic activity, whatever the initial warning, took place over a period of a week to 10 days. We did nothing about our civil defence capability. We sat back and hoped for the best. I think that it was Bertrand Russell who said that civil defence was a "callous fraud" and he based his argument upon the fact that Governments were not prepared to spend enough money to make it more than marginally useful, but were trying to create the impression that there was a defence. This is what the Government are doing tonight. This is the crux of the matter.

I say in all sincerity that if hon. Gentlemen opposite can convince me that there is a defence, I shall join them in the Lobby. In fact, I will go further. I will join them in demanding from the Government the sort of expenditure that will make this defence credible. I see that one hon. Gentleman opposite agrees with me. At the moment we are doing neither one thing nor the other.

At the time of the Cuban crisis theEconomist talked about the £20 million in these terms: This is a tiny premium to pay if the force is efficiently organised and if it could really do any good were catastrophe to come to this small, crowded, and (in nuclear terms) indefensible island. But is it—and could it? In my opinion the answer to both those questions is "No". Why, then, do we deceive ourselves? Why not say to the people of the world that a nuclear war will mean the effective end of civilisation as we know it? Are Governments afraid that the reaction of people would drive them into real disarmament talks? Is that what is behind this reluctance?

There are no strong views about civil defence in this country. I have heard hon. Members saying that they have received masses of letters. I have not had one. The Government's decision has been met with derisory apathy, and I am afraid that it merely reflects the general disinterest of our people. Local authorities always have difficulty in getting members to serve on Civil Defence committees, and corps are usually under strength.

One of the last stories that I did as a journalist before coming to the House was on a Civil Defence Corps in a county town in the Midlands. Its total active strength was one old lady. Civil defence is subjected to a great deal of unfair criticism. I believe this strongly. I know that some of my constituents regard it as a huge joke, a social get-together for those taking part, an occasional weekend on exercise, some holiday money, some free driving licences, and so on. These are the criticisms which, as a journalist, I have had to report over the years.

I do not accept those arguments. The real tragedy of the Government's decision is that thousands of civil defence workers, first class people—and I know many of them—who gave their time and energy to help provide a better society have now been told that they are not wanted. I believe that they are wanted. I would like to see the Government use these people, and this £20 million—it is no more than a conjuror's trick anyway—as a real effective integrated peace-time emergency force. Give them a rôle and not an illusion.

Perhaps I could spend a few moments looking at the realities of civil defence. Government manuals on this subject have done more than anything else to discredit the ideal of civil defence. Civil Defence Handbook No. 8, Emergency Feeding, contains some gems of advice. For example: Food which is not being prepared by the cooks should be kept in a food store. My wife keeps food in a food store. If there is any doubt about food, it should not be used…. Water for washing-up and other cleansing operations must be labelled ' not for drinking '. And there is a delightful paragraph headed, "Unburnable solids", which begins: These include tins and bottles. Some genius wrote that, though it would be difficult to know at whom his advice was directed.

Of course, I could have great fun quoting from the famous civil defence handbook "Advising the Householder on Pro- tection against Nuclear Attack", which advised the whitewashing of windows. I will quote just one section to show the absolute futility of the whole affair. Under the heading of "Sanitation", we are told: You should not rely on being able to use your W.C. There might not be enough water to flush it or the sewerage scheme might be damaged. It recommends that we keep, among many other things, large receptacles with covers and improved seats for use as urinals.

I want to ask hon. Gentlemen opposite, have they got these large receptacles at home? If not, and if they are sincere and honest about civil defence, why not? I should have liked to ask the hon. and learned Member for Solihull (Mr. Grieve) from whose part of the world I come, "Please can I come along at the weekend and have a look at your receptacle? I am very interested. I may not want one, but it is just possible that my wife does."

There is an important matter which relates to my own area. I quote fromThe Timesof 30th January: The Government is still considering the rôle of thousands of anonymous people who would run the country in an atomic war. In the west Midlands, there are about 200 who would sit out an atomic attack in deep shelters specially dug about the region. They would emerge to begin the task of reorganisation and life-saving. There is no room for wives and children in the shelters. Who are the fortunate 200? How were they chosen? Can my hon. and learned Friend be sure that they will survive long enough to get into the shelters in the first place? Is it seriously suggested that 200 people could make a serious contribution to running a great industrial conurbation like the West Midlands? I know that one of the main purposes of civil defence is the organisation and replacement of day-to-day government, and they might be able to do the job better than we in this House. Certainly they would organise their affairs better.

Despite that, I believe that the Government have made the right decision, one which took courage and a willingness to face reality. I ask my right hon. Friend to take no notice of hon. Gentlemen opposite, who are still living in a fantasy world of childhood dreams, of toy soldiers and battles we always won. Times have changed, and none of us here can foresee the possibility of a nuclear war. One way to ensure that we are proved right is to convince the rest of the world, leaders and peoples, that there would be no future for any of us. I shall support the Government tonight with relish, because they have gone some way towards that objective.