Orders of the Day — Growth of Bureaucracy

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 29 January 1968.

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Photo of Major Sir Henry D'Avigdor-Goldsmid Major Sir Henry D'Avigdor-Goldsmid , Walsall South 12:00, 29 January 1968

The hon. Gentleman is being too clever. Why has this matter come up? It is because the number of forms we have had to complete has increased so much in the last two or three years that we have had to engage extra men in our statistical departments. I am not talking about the competence of the Government. I do not think that they even get the information, quite apart from whether they act upon it when they do.

I want now to talk about one of the most important businesses in the country—an oil refinery. I do not suppose that the hon. Gentleman even knows, but he should know, that, where an oil refinery is acting in a bonded area, it has to keep an entirely different set of books for customs purposes than for its normal accounting activities. There are nine particulars which have to be filed in respect of every application—and I have them all here. I shall not bore the House with them, however. What is the purpose? The purpose is to prevent the illicit use of bonded material within the bonded area.

But the danger to the stability of the Revenue of the odd tin of petrol being moved in or out of a bonded area or moved about within the area is an irrelevancy. It is an example of the sort of things which the hon. Gentleman himself said were not worth collecting. If he has the time between now and the Budget to apply himself to such matters, he should, instead of insisting that these major oil companies keep a separate set of books for the Customs, allow them merely to give the Customs access to their ordinary books. All the information is available there and I suspect that it is in a very much more up-to-date form than that in which it is demanded by the Customs. This is the sort of thing I mean in referring to the inability of branches of the Government to understand how ordinary people function.

I turn to the problems of the large construction engineering companies. I have here an example concerning a firm which has a turnover of 80,000 employees a year, for each of whom it has to keep an individual record of service under the Contracts of Employment Act and because of earnings-related benefit. The information concerning the earnings-related benefit is already in the possession of the Inland Revenue. But the Ministry of Social Security does not go to the Inland Revenue for it; it goes back to the employer, who goes back to his microfilm library which is necessary to keep the records of 80,000 employees. This is something which the Financial Secretary might consider.

There is a certain amount of woolliness about the Redundancy Payments Act. Are payments under that Act to be considered as compensation for loss of a job or as a reward for a certain period of service? If they are to be regarded as a reward for a certain period of service, one treatment is needed. If they are to be regarded as compensation for loss of a job, it often happens that a large contracting company wishes to transfer someone from one branch to another. Is this person entitled to a payment under the Redundancy Payments Act, although his employment is continuous? It cannot be the Government's intention that a bonus should be paid to a man on changing his job inside the same organisation. What is the redundancy payment for? This is something which should be Government-administered. This is a payment which should be made at the end of a person's career and not in the middle of it.

I have received a very interesting paper on accident prevention. I can tell the Financial Secretary that 50 per cent, of the safety officer's time is taken up in filling in forms, and not in preventing accidents. I have a list of a total of 12 forms which he has to fill in. For instance, he has to quote the qualification and inspection date of the first-aid box certificate. He has to deal with the testing of fire alarms. He has to publish the names of the people on contract to summon, not to drive, an ambulance.

It is clear that no one has ever considered what goes on in a factory. Someone may have a bright idea, another order is sent out and the accident prevention officer, instead of spending 50 per cent, of his time in filling in forms, must spend 55 per cent, of his time in doing it. No one has ever thought of considering what is necessary. I should not like to set myself up as an expert on what is and what is not necessary, but I am sure that it cannot be right for the accident prevention officer to spend more than half his time in filling up forms.

On investment grants—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman asked for details. I am going into detail.