Business of the House

– in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 16 March 1967.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr George Strauss Mr George Strauss , Lambeth Vauxhall

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Before we embark upon the business for next week, may I seek your guidance? On a number of occasions, on recent Thursdays, an hon. Member has asked the Leader of the House a question and he has replied, and subsequently a large number of other hon. Members have risen and asked the same question. That, in my submission, has led to pointless and tiresome repetition and has resulted in a great waste of time.

I recall that previous Speakers have frowned on that practice and not allowed the repetition of questions which have been put and answered. May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, to consider adopting that practice, and may I suggest that, if you do, you will have the warm support of all sections of the House?

Photo of Sir Harmar Nicholls Sir Harmar Nicholls , Peterborough

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. How else can back-bench Members make their position clear when the Executive are obviously working against the wish of the House?

Photo of Mr James Griffiths Mr James Griffiths , Llanelli

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will recall that I raised this matter some time ago, when you intimated that it might be desirable for the Select Committee on Procedure to consider it. You said that the rule at present was that all hon. Members could ask questions on the Business Statement. May I ask whether any steps have been taken to instruct the Select Committee to look at the problem?

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. It is very difficult to be addressed on a point of order and attempt to deal with it if there are five or six supplementary points on the same point of order. Colonel Sir Walter Bromley-Davenport.

Photo of Lieut-Colonel Sir Walter Bromley-Davenport Lieut-Colonel Sir Walter Bromley-Davenport , Knutsford

Further to the point of order raised by the right hon. Member for Vauxhall (Mr. Strauss) with regard to the constant repetition of questions by back-bench Members, we hope that you will not stop this, Mr. Speaker, as it is the only way in which we can try to get a straight answer.

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

May I address myself to the problem raised in all the points of order? The Chair does not know what question is to be asked by an hon. Member until he has asked it. This is a simple statement of fact. The Chair could not rule on a repetitious question until the question had been asked. That is the first point.

The second point is that the repetition at Business Question time of a question almost identical with a previous one is one of the ways in which the House and the Leader of the House and the Government become aware of the serious nature of the point being raised.

On the other hand, I understand that it was the practice of my predecessors, some time back—too far back for Mr. Speaker to alter the rules by autocratic methods—after a certain time to clamp down on business questions, as, after a time, he clamps down on other types of questions. This is the matter which the House must think about.

If I may put again the very serious point which I put to the House two or three weeks ago, it would be a very untenable position if, at Business Question time, every hon. Member used what seems at present to be his right to put a question and if every hon. Member used his right to put a repetitious question.

This is why I suggested some time ago that the Select Committee on Procedure might look at the matter. But this is a question to be solved, I think, by the good sense and tolerance of the House. The business question is a legitimate opportunity for the ventilation of matters about which hon. Members are keen. If it is abused, the House will have to make its own rules to protect itself against that abuse. Mr. Heath.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

May I ask the Leader of the House to state the business of the House for next week?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

Yes, Sir. The business for next week will be as follows:

MONDAY, 20TH MARCH—In the morning—

A debate will be opened on the Land Commission Orders and Prayers.

In the afternoon—Second Reading of the Consolidated Fund (No. 2) Bill.

TUESDAY, 21ST MARCH—Lords Amendments to the Iron and Steel Bill.

Conclusion of the debate on the Land Commission Orders and Prayers.

WEDNESDAY, 22ND MARCH—In the morning—Completion of the debates on the Post Office Accounts and on the Isle of Wight and Portsmouth (Solent Forts) Order.

Prayer relating to the University and Other Awards Amending Regulations.

In the afternoon—Second Reading of the Decimal Currency Bill.

Prayer on the Prices and Incomes Order relating to Press Employees.

THURSDAY, 23RD MARCH—It is expected that the House will meet at 11 a.m., that Questions will be taken until 12 noon and that the House will adjourn at 5 o'clock, until Tuesday, 4th April.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

I would thank the right hon. Gentleman, first, for making an arrangement which, I think, will be convenient to everybody, for answering the Prayer on Wednesday on prices and incomes.

Second, is he aware that right hon. and hon. Gentlemen on both sides of the House will deplore the fact that the Government have now decided to steamroller their Decimal Currency Bill through the House next Wednesday without first giving the House an opportunity to discuss the merits of the £ and 10s. unit and give free expression to its views?

Third, he will, I am sure, recall that, on 14th December, when the House discussed procedure, he said, in relation to the morning sittings, that important or controversial statements would still be taken at 3.30. Why, only three months later, has he repudiated this firm undertaking to the House? Why did he, yesterday morning, take an important and controversial statement about the salaries for the National Steel Corporation? This was a repudiation of his undertaking to the House.

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I note the right hon. Gentleman's statement of opinion about decimal currency.

On the second matter, which does not really relate to the business for next week, the action to take would be to put a Question down to me on the subject of Ministerial statements at morning sittings, when I will, of course, reply to it.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

Is it surprising, Mr. Speaker, that we have long sessions of business questions on Thursday afternoon if the Leader of the House behaves in this autocratic way and refuses to answer a reasonable question from the Leader of the Opposition? What is in question is a firm undertaking given by the Leader of the House to the House that important statements would still be taken at 3.30. Does the right hon. Gentleman deny that, yesterday morning, the statement on steel salaries was both important and controversial? Why was it taken then? Why has be repudiated his undertaking?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

The principle holds. I said that matters which were for the afternoon were matters of major importance—

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

In my view, what we did was to put forward the correct things for the morning sittings.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

The right hon. Gentleman's precise words, if I may be allowed to quote in this context, were: Let me emphasise that important or controversial statements"—

Photo of Mr Eustace Willis Mr Eustace Willis , Edinburgh East

On a point of order. Could you, Mr. Speaker, tell the House how what happened yesterday morning comes under the heading of business for next week?

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

I was about to intervene. I think that what the Leader of the Opposion was seeking was some assurance that what happened yesterday will not happen in future. That is the form in which his question should be put.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

Then may I put it in this form, that the assurance of the Leader of the House was that important or controversial statements—that was his definition—will still be taken at 3.30. Will he give another assurance, to replace the one which he has already repudiated, that this will still go on?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

The right hon. Gentleman should not talk about repudiating assurances, because I have repudiated no assurance. I would suggest that, if we want to conduct our business reasonably—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—we should discuss these matters reasonably with each other.

The right hon. Gentleman holds the view that the statements taken yesterday were not the kind suitable for the morning. If that is so, I will consider this through the usual channels, because the question of what we should take in the morning and what in the afternoon is one which we shall have to solve in practice. I respect the view that the right hon. Gentleman feels strongly that this is wrong. If that is put to me, I will consider it in considering which statements should be made in the morning and which in the afternoon.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

The right hon. Gentleman has raised the question—

Photo of Mr Eric Ogden Mr Eric Ogden , Liverpool, West Derby

On a point of order. With respect to the Leader of the Opposition, how many questions is he allowed to put for every one question from a back bencher?

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

The hon. Member must leave to Chair the control of business question time.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

Mr. Heath rose—

Photo of Mr Michael Foot Mr Michael Foot , Ebbw Vale

On a point of order. However many questions it may be right for the Leader of the Opposition to address to the Leader of the House, is it not a fact that, if the Leader of the Opposition wishes to make objection to holding certain business in the morning sittings, which appears to be the foundation of his charge, he ought to put down a Motion for debate, so that it could be discussed in an orderly manner?

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

That is not a point of order, but a point of argument.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

The right hon. Gentleman has said that, if we take exception to the two statements taken yesterday morning, we should discuss the matter through the usual channels. He must surely be aware that we made representations before yesterday morning against taking these two statements and that they were turned—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. We cannot hold an inquest now—

Hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. The Chair needs no support from either side. We cannot hold an inquest on yesterday. What we can do is look forward to the future. This is Business Question Time.

Photo of Mr Hector Hughes Mr Hector Hughes , Aberdeen North

On a point of order. Are you aware, Mr. Speaker, that the Leader of the Opposition is trying to entice the Leader of the House into a debate on something quite different from the business for next week? Is that in order?

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

The hon. and learned Gentleman should listen to what the Chair says.

Photo of Mr Edward Heath Mr Edward Heath , Bexley

Will the Leader of the House give an assurance that the representations which were turned down yesterday against taking these statements will not be turned down in future?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

Representations were made and we consulted the Department. The Department's view was that these were not major statements.

Hon. Members:

Resign!

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. That is about enough noise.

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

It is no good hon. Gentlemen opposite shouting about this.

Photo of Mrs Anne Kerr Mrs Anne Kerr , Rochester and Chatham

On a point of order. It is impossible to hear what my right hon. Friend is saying in this quarter of the House, Mr. Speaker.

Several Hon. Members:

Several Hon. Members rose—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. I am glad that the hon. Lady has raised that point. I am experiencing a little difficulty myself in hearing what is being said in certain parts of the House. This is something into which we must ask the engineers to look.

Photo of Mr Michael Foot Mr Michael Foot , Ebbw Vale

On a point of order. The last question asked by the Leader of the Opposition, as I understood it, was that my right hon. Friend should give an undertaking that in future certain representations made through the usual channels about statements would be considered. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that that question is out of order at Business Question Time, and that it is more in the nature of a discussion about the general procedure of the House. Since it is not concerned with next week's business—I suggest that the rights of back benchers are being prejudiced.

If the Leader of the Opposition wishes to alter the procedure of the House to suit himself and some of his hon. Friends, he should table a Motion, like any other hon. Member, so that we can debate it. But if he is not prepared to resort to that course, then he is usurping the rights of back benchers—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. I am always grateful to the hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Michael Foot) when he raises a point of order. It would be—[AN HON. MEMBER: "Speak up."] This is part of the acoustic trouble—of great convenience to the Chair if, at Business Question Time, the only questions that were asked were questions about the business for next week. That has by no means occurred for quite a long time in this Parliament. I think that that answers the first part of the hon. Gentleman's point of order.

To answer the second part, I understood the Leader of the Opposition to be asking a question about the kind of Motion or Order which should be taken at morning sittings. That seems to be a legitimate business question.

Photo of Mr Duncan Sandys Mr Duncan Sandys , Wandsworth Streatham

On a point of order. The Leader of the House said that before deciding whether a statement was or was not controversial and, therefore, appropriate for the morning or afternoon, he had consulted a Government Department. Is it not an insult to this House to suggest—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. That is a matter of argument, not a question about the business for next week.

Photo of Mr Duncan Sandys Mr Duncan Sandys , Wandsworth Streatham

Further to my point of order. Is it not an insult to this House that the business of the House should be controlled by civil servants in Government Departments?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

There is really no question of business being controlled by civil servants in Government Departments. The question which we must decide is what time to make statement A or statement B, and this we are trying our best to do in practice—remembering, of course, that we are doing this for an experimental Session. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why."] We are doing it because we want as much as we can to be done in the mornings to prevent a delay in the starting of the main business in the afternoon. This is my major preoccupation. It is true that I gave the House an assurance that important statements would be made in the afternoon.

This is a matter of some difficulty—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Hon. Gentlemen opposite have questioned me about it and have asked me what should be taken in the mornings and what should be taken in the afternoons. I am grateful to the Leader of the Opposition for having made the position so clear. I gather that he thinks that a particular statement—on steel, I understand—should not have been made in the morning, but I gather that the other statement, about the railways, he thinks was suitable to have been made in the morning.

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

This illustrates the difficulty.

An Hon. Member:

The Tories do not want to come here in the mornings.

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

If all statements which arouse any interest must be made in the afternoon, then all statements will be taken then. However, I repeat that this is a matter on which we must consult with all parts of the House. I shall listen to the representations on this issue from hon. Gentlemen opposite. There is no question of our being dictated to by Government Departments. I said that I took the opinion of the Department but I took my own decision, and, therefore, I suggest that if we are to make a success, as we are determined to do, of our morning sittings, we should continue the practice of taking Ministerial statements then; but I agree that we should take those of first importance in the afternoon as long as it is the wish of the House that they should be taken then.

Photo of Mr James Griffiths Mr James Griffiths , Llanelli

Will my right hon. Friend arrange for an early debate on the problem of the abuse that is taking place of the rules of the House, an abuse that is preventing the House from getting on with its normal business? Will he refer this matter to the Select Committee on Procedure?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

This is a matter which the Select Committee might well be asked to consider. There is a problem. After all, it arose out of the suggestion of the Select Committee for morning sittings. It is true that the idea of Ministerial statements was not in the Committee's Report and that, therefore, the Committee did not express an opinion on the point. I did, and we put it forward, and if my right hon. Friend thinks that it would be a good idea, as it very well might be, to have an all-party Select Committee looking at the working of our system of making Ministerial statements, and to give us advice on it, then I find that a constructive suggestion.

Photo of Mr Anthony Barber Mr Anthony Barber , Altrincham and Sale

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Minister of Transport, in her statement yesterday, said, and I quote—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. I am not prepared, at Business Question Time, to have an inquest on what happened yesterday. The right hon. Gentleman must link his remarks to the business for next week, or to a request for a debate some time ahead.

Photo of Mr Anthony Barber Mr Anthony Barber , Altrincham and Sale

May I have an assurance from the Leader of the House that in future no fundamental change of policy will be announced in the mornings? Will the right hon. Gentleman give a straight answer to a simple question? I want a "Yes" or "No" from him—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Does the right hon. Gentleman—I appreciate that there may have been a mistake; his answer will help us in the future—consider that yesterday's statement was—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. The right hon. Gentleman is doing what I said should not be done at Business Question Time.

Photo of Mr Anthony Barber Mr Anthony Barber , Altrincham and Sale

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman—[HON. MEMBERS: "NO."]—whether—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. The only thing about which I am concerned is that Parliament does not hurt itself.

Photo of Mr Anthony Barber Mr Anthony Barber , Altrincham and Sale

We can bring this matter to a simple conclusion if the Leader of the House will give an unqualified assurance that in future, as he said on 14th December last, no statement which is either important or controversial will be taken in the morning.

Photo of Mr Samuel Silverman Mr Samuel Silverman , Nelson and Colne

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. With respect, my question is how far this nonsense is to be allowed to continue. There is not a vestige in these questions that has any relevance to any matter in the least likely to be dealt with by the House next week. If hon. Members opposite are really determined to extend this Business Question Time every Thursday afternoon to three-quarters of an hour, or an hour, would it not be better to transfer Business Question Time itself to morning sittings?

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. The hon. Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. Sydney Silverman) must let the Chair judge what is in order.

Photo of Mr Kenneth Lewis Mr Kenneth Lewis , Rutland and Stamford

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I ask when those on the back benches can join in the debate that is going on between those on the Front Benches both above and below the Gangway? Perhaps then some of those who attend the morning sittings may be included in the debate.

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. Let us get back to the business of the moment.

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

The right hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale (Mr. Barber) asked me whether I would give an assurance that a statement about a fundamental change of policy would not be made in the morning. Is that right?

Photo of Mr Anthony Barber Mr Anthony Barber , Altrincham and Sale

I said an important or controversial statement.

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I am sorry. The right hon. Gentleman asked three questions, and I am now taking the first one. He has forgotten, in his excitement, what he asked me.

The right hon. Gentleman asked whether I would give an assurance that a statement made on a fundamental change of policy would not be made in the mornings. I can give him that assurance, because that would be to contravene the description I gave then. I would also give him an assurance that I shall seek to interpret a decision whether to put on a statement for the morning or the evening in accordance with what I said in the debate on 14th December. There will be disagreements about it, and in those disagreements I shall seek to consider the views not only of those on this side, but of hon. Members in all parts of the House.

Photo of Mr Stan Orme Mr Stan Orme , Salford West

Will my right hon. Friend take note, in relation to next week's business and the morning sittings, that many of us foreshadowed that this difficulty would arise because the House had tried to distinguish between first-class and second-class business? We must not do that. Will not my right hon. Friend look seriously, if we are in favour of morning sittings at the idea of starting business properly then rolling it back to 10 o'clock and continuing it throughout the day?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

My hon. Friend has put a very important point, which was put on a previous Business Statement, when hon. Members below the Gangway said, quite rightly, that this distinction we have made between what might be called important and secondary business would be extremely difficult to make, and possibly an untenable method of conducting business, because some hon. Members would regard it as an insult to call any business of the House as of secondary importance.

There is a genuine difficulty here. We are all aware that we are in an experimental Session and that we are trying to make the experiment work. I have been listening attentively to hon. Members opposite because there is obvious indignation about Wednesday's announcement. I am prepared to listen to all that may be said before making up my mind.

In the meantime, I can tell the House that a statement on prices and incomes will be made probably on Wednesday, and that it will not be made in the morning.

Photo of Mr Peter Blaker Mr Peter Blaker , Blackpool South

If the Leader of the House will answer a question it may give us some guidance about future business. Is not the explanation of the whole matter that the Leader of the House considers that the statement that the deputy chairman of a nationalised industry will have a salary of £24,000 a year is non-controversial?

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. I am not prepared to have an inquiest on yesterday's business, and a mere repeating of it is a waste of Business Question Time.

Photo of Mr Charles Pannell Mr Charles Pannell , Leeds West

As we may have all this controversy over again, will you say, Sir, at what time of the clock this nonsense gets to the point of tedious repetition?

Photo of Mr Robin Turton Mr Robin Turton , Thirsk and Malton

If the Leader of the House has no statement to make today on morning sittings, will he, next week, repeat in the House the proposals he made to another Parliamentary gathering yesterday for the reform of morning sittings, which have never been considered by the Select Committee on Procedure?

Mr. Grossman:

If the right hon. Gentleman is referring to a speech I made upstairs, I may say that I ventilated informally an idea which, I hope, will be considered by all hon. Members. It has also been ventilated by my hon. Friends. We are thinking informally, and trying to test the opinion informally of hon. Members as to what we should do in the morning sittings. This is one of the ideas.

Photo of Mr Eric Ogden Mr Eric Ogden , Liverpool, West Derby

My right hon. Friend has said that the statement on prices and incomes may possibly be made in the House on Wednesday. Will he bear in mind that this is a matter of deep concern to many hon. Members, and that discussion about it afterwards, even if limited, would take a fair amount of time from our debate on decimal currency? Could he possible have the statement made on Tuesday rather than on Wednesday?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

This is something we had actually thought of. Negotiations and the document are not yet completed, so Wednesday is the earliest time we can safely say the statement can be made.

As my hon. Friend says, if we then have a longish question and answer period after the statement, it will eat time from the debate on the Second Reading of the Decimal Currency Bill. I should have thought that the time to discuss the statement would be after it has been made and after the White Paper has been studied, rather than before.

Photo of Mr James Davidson Mr James Davidson , Aberdeenshire West

Is the Leader of the House aware that many Scottish Members are eagerly awaiting a statement on the work of the Highland Development Board and its future development projects? In view of recent speculation in the Press, can he give an assurance that his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland will make a statement on this matter before the Easter Recess?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I cannot give an assurance, but I shall certainly draw the matter to the attention of my right hon. Friend, in accordance with the hon. Member's wishes.

Photo of Mr Tam Dalyell Mr Tam Dalyell , West Lothian

Has it been drawn to the attention of my right hon. Friend that although we have had six days' debate on defence the Government, through no fault of their own, have had no opportunity to deploy their case on the Anglo-French variable geometry project? Can we have an early debate on the Ministry of Technology, since the agreement is likely to be signed before the end of the month?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I will certainly bear that suggestion in mind, but I cannot see how a debate could take place next week.

Photo of Mr Michael Alison Mr Michael Alison , Barkston Ash

Has the right hon. Gentleman seen the announcement in the Press today from the Electricity Council of what amounts to a sensational retrenchment in expenditure on electricity? Can he arrange for his right hon. Friend the Minister of Power to make a statement, either in the morning or the afternoon, because the announcement is significant for many industries particularly coal and the railways?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not be rebuked by his Front Bench for suggesting using a morning sitting for such an important statement, but I will certainly bring his suggestion to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Power.

Photo of Mr Eric Heffer Mr Eric Heffer , Liverpool, Walton

Will the Leader of the House tell us when there is likely to be a statement from the Government about a possible application to join the E.E.C.?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

No, Sir. It certainly will not be before the Easter Recess.

Photo of Mr David Webster Mr David Webster , Weston-Super-Mare

If any statements are made next week by Ministers, will the Leader of the House prevail upon them not to withhold the essential documents until the statement is made in the House?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I will certainly bring that matter to their attention. In the case of the statement on prices and incomes policy, I assume that the White Paper will be laid at the same time.

Mr. Bob Brown:

Can the Leader of the House say when we may have an Order laid before the House on the future pattern of local government on Tyneside?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I will bring that question to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government.

Photo of Mr John Rodgers Mr John Rodgers , Sevenoaks

Referring to the right hon. Gentleman's speech made yesterday, as he says, upstairs, is it his intention to take Government business on Fridays and thus deprive back benchers of their rights?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

This is a matter which no doubt the hon. Gentleman would like to discuss with me and his hon. Friends in our consideration of the future. What was put out was a suggestion—which I shall repeat, since the hon. Member has asked me—that we should consider the possibility of taking Private Members' time in principle—with details not yet worked out—and possibly use Friday for Government business? It is one of the things that we have in mind and—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. We cannot debate that at this moment.

Photo of Mr Alf Morris Mr Alf Morris , Manchester Wythenshawe

Can my right hon. Friend agree to provide facilities for the quick passage into law of the Private Places of Entertainment (Licensing) Bill in view of the help which it would give to those who wish to arrest the trafficking in drugs? I apologise for intervening in the Thursday afternoon blood sports.

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. We want business questions without trimmings.

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

This is an important Bill. I think that I answered during questions on the Business Statement last week that we have had a similar Bill in the House of Lords, now introduced here, or a Motion for leave to bring one in and that we shall see how that goes.

Photo of Mr Stratton Mills Mr Stratton Mills , Belfast North

As fewer than a dozen hon. Members were present on Monday morning, has the Leader of the House any comment to make on Motion 464, requesting the Select Committee to discover how many hon. Members have to leave their homes on a Sunday evening or before 5 a.m. on Monday to be in their places by ten o'clock.

[That this House urges the Select Committee on Procedure to circulate all Members of Parliament to discover how manyMembers cannot reach the House of Commons by 10 a.m. on a Monday morning without having to leave their main home on a Sunday or before 5 a.m. on a Monday morning.]

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I saw that Motion, but I should not have thought that an elaborate statistical analysis would be necessary to reach the facts on which to make a decision. The number of hon. Members present on Monday morning was not noticeably fewer than there would be at, say, midnight, when the matter discussed in the morning might have been discussed.

Several Hon. Members:

Several Hon. Members rose

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. I remind the House, as I did last week, that there is important business ahead.

Photo of Mr Victor Goodhew Mr Victor Goodhew , St Albans

Is it not abundantly clear from the answers given by the Leader of the House to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition that in arranging business the Leader of the House has been giving consideration first to the convenience of Government Departments instead of to the interests of back benchers?

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. It is bad enough to have a long business question session, but the questions must be business questions.

Photo of Mr Victor Goodhew Mr Victor Goodhew , St Albans

I was about to seek the assurance of the right hon. Gentleman that next week he will put the interests of back benchers before the interests of Government Departments.

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. That is a general statement of philosophy rather than a business question.

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

Nevertheless, may I be allowed to answer it? If the suggestion is once again made that there is any question of breaking faith with back benchers on the subject of Ministerial statements made in the morning, it is totally untrue. We have to consider the balance of interests. I have considered throughout the interests of back benchers primarily in regard to these statements. I remind the hon. Member that in many cases these statements might well have been made by Written Answer if we had not had them in the morning.

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. We are getting into the nature of an inquest on past events. I hope that we can move on.

Photo of Sir Douglas Glover Sir Douglas Glover , Ormskirk

It is quite obvious from the questions and answers this afternoon that a debate on the procedure of the House is absolutely urgent. I appreciate that that cannot take place next week, but will the Leader of the House promise that we may have a debate on it as soon as we come back after Easter?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I think we shall have to have a debate soon after Easter. We have already one Report from the Select Committee on Standing Order No. 9 and there is another coming out today on debates on the Finance Bill. These certainly will have to be dealt with and possibly these other subjects might be raised by hon. Members during the course of such a debate.

Photo of Mr Hugh Gray Mr Hugh Gray , Yarmouth

In view of the widespread concern about university affairs, of which the L.S.E. disturbances are possibly a symptom, will my right hon. Friend consider the possibility of a debate on this subject after the Recess?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I shall consult my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education, but I cannot give an assurance that there will be an early debate on that subject.

Several Hon. Members:

Several Hon. Members rose

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. Again I remind the House that there is an important debate ahead.

Photo of Mr John Biffen Mr John Biffen , Oswestry

Is the Leader of the House able to say that the statements which will be made next week on prices and incomes will not, in fact reveal the Government's intentions on Part II of the Act? Can he assure us that the House will have an opportunity to debate Part II before the Government have made up their mind on it and published the proposals in a White Paper?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I think I said that the content will be concerned with criteria and norms and I repeat that statement. The hon. Member expects a statement early after the return from the Recess, but I cannot give an assurance on when we can have a debate. We had better wait and see what the statement is and discuss through the usual channels the kind of discussion which the House should give to it.

Photo of Mr John Eden Mr John Eden , Bournemouth West

Has the right hon. Gentleman yet had an opportunity to consult the Foreign Secretary about having a debate at the earliest opportunity on the subject of Aden? May we have an assurance that we shall get this before Easter?

Photo of Mr Richard Crossman Mr Richard Crossman , Coventry East

I gathered that the right hon. Member for Streatham (Mr. Sandys) is to raise the issue on the Consolidated Fund Bill. I appreciate that that will be in Private Members' time and that the hon. Member for Bournemouth, West (Sir J. Eden) would like the debate to be in Government time. I give the assurance that shortly after the Recess we shall have a debate on foreign affairs. No doubt this could be one of the main subjects in that debate.

Photo of Mr Norman St John-Stevas Mr Norman St John-Stevas , Chelmsford

May we have an assurance that it is not the intention of the Government before or after Easter to give time to facilitate the passage of the Medical Termination of Pregnancy Bill—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. We cannot have negative questions on business.

Photo of Mr Ian Lloyd Mr Ian Lloyd , Portsmouth Langstone

On a point of order. I hope that I shall not trespass beyond the boundaries which you have laid down, but as this affects, or may affect, the whole subject of Ministers' Answers to Questions, I hope that you will not rule me out of order, Sir.

For Thursday, 13th April, I put down a Question to the Prime Minister which asks: whether he will instruct Ministers… I am not concerned with the rest of the Question, but I received notice this afternoon that this Question has been transferred to the Lord President of the Council. Are we to take it that the Prime Minister is unable, or unwilling, to instruct Ministers, or—

Photo of Dr Horace King Dr Horace King , Southampton, Itchen

Order. Part of that is an argument and not a point of order. On the point of order the issue is simple. It is for Ministers to decide which Ministers answer Questions put to them by hon. Members.