I am grateful to the hon. Member for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall) for introducing this subject and for the kind remarks he made in connection with my first appearance at the Dispatch Box as part of Ministry of Defence. We are aware of his loyal service in the Royal Marines. On a personal note, I might mention that he and I, albeit some years ago, were closely involved in visiting different parts of Africa and looking at the problems there.

I cannot help but feel that in the last six years we have drifted somewhat apart in terms of our views on this subject—and whereas the hon. Gentleman now talks about apartheid in reverse in relation to our attitude, I recall some speeches which he made, but not in the House, in which he movingly spoke of the immorality of apartheid. I wonder whether from time to time in recent years—when one recalls some of the things he has said about Rhodesia, the break-up of the Federation and so on—he has been endeavouring to give a measure of respec- tability to something which in conscience he abhors.

The debate has ranged wide afield and at times I have thought it to be a dress rehearsal for the defence debate which we will be having shortly. Perhaps the hon. Member for Haltemprice wants more that one bite at the cherry. Anyone listening to the hon. Gentleman's remarks about Simonstown and the South Atlantic might imagine that our discussions had broken down in absolute failure. The plain fact is—and the hon Member knows this—that our discussions with the South African Government were conducted in the most amicable atmosphere. A conclusion was reached and we reached agreement. This has been announced in South Africa and was announced in reply to a Question tabled by the hon. Gentleman on Friday of last week.