Clause 3. — (General Duty of the Corporation.)

Bill Presented – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 23rd January 1967.

Alert me about debates like this

9.30 p.m.

Photo of Dr Jeremy Bray Dr Jeremy Bray , Middlesbrough West

I beg to move Amendment No. 25, in page 3, line 45, at the end to insert: 'produced by the Corporation and the publicly-owned companies.' The right hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale (Mr. Barber) was concerned in Committee with the duty of the Corpora- tion to provide efficient and economic supplies of …iron and steel products, and to secure that such products are available in such quantities, and are of such types, qualities and sizes… as may be required. He was afraid that this referred not only to production by the Corporation and the publicly-owned companies but also to the private sector, thus making the Corporation responsible in the private sector for something it had no means of executing. He thought that this might cause possible difficulties and interference. His Amendment in Committee was accepted. This Amendment is a consequential one, making the same change in another Clause, and is, therefore, entirely consequential on the Amendment moved by the right hon. Gentleman in Committee.

Amendment agreed to.

Photo of Mr John Peyton Mr John Peyton , Yeovil

I beg to move, Amendment No. 26, in page 4, line 1, to leave out from 'sizes' to the end of line.

The offending words are: …and are available at such prices… Not even the most prodigious of our inquiries in Committee were able to elicit from the Government an explanation of why they considered that the Clause, with the abominable phrase "It shall be incumbent on the Corporation", should be in the Bill. I could not understand —and this is still my view—why the simple phrase "the Corporation shall promote" should not be used. However, I am more concerned with the words which state that it shall be the duty of the Corporation …to secure that such products are available in such quantities, and are of such types, qualities and sizes, and are available at such prices, as may seem to the Corporation best calculated to satisfy the reasonable demands of the persons …who use such products… At present drafted, the Clause contains the words …and are available at such prices…". Since it has nothing to do with the Corporation to fix the price, I suggest that either the words mean nothing or that they have a vicious meaning and should be deleted.

The financial duties of the Corporation appear later in the Bill. Clause 14 deals with its general financial duties and what is chargeable to revenue account. Clause 16 deals with the Corporation's commencing financial debt and the rate of interest which should be paid thereon. I do not understand why it is necessary to have the words which I propose to delete. I see that it is desirable to place on the Corporation a duty to see that iron and steel products are available in the …quantities…types, qualities and sizes… for which there is a demand. However, I do not see why it is necessary or meaningful to impose on the Corporation the loose duty which is imposed by the words …and are available at such prices… which seem to imply that the Corporation will be judging the price and will fix it according to standards perhaps other than those appearing later in the Bill and according to the considerations contained in the ordinary policy for the finances of nationalised industries, which the present Government support.

I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will be able to tell us why these words are necessary. From my reading of the Bill they are quite unnecessary. If they are there merely for ornament we shall have to accept it, but if for some other reason there should be a very full explanation. This Amendment deals with a very brief point which can be dealt with expeditiously unless the Parliamentary Secretary produces some unexpected hazard.

Photo of Sir Gerald Nabarro Sir Gerald Nabarro , Worcestershire South

My name supports the Amendment because the words alluded to by my hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton) are superfluous and redundant. I shall not weary the House by reading the first subsection of Clause 14. Therein is enshrined the principal financial provision of this Bill. It says, as in the case of other nationalised industries, that the Corporation will pay its way taking year with year. That is what it means, but the Corporation cannot pay its way taking year with year unless it charges prices appropriate to the market. I should have thought that self-evident.

Whereas the Corporation representing 90 per cent. of the steel manufacturing resources of Britain obviously has to meet the requirements of the market in regard to quality of steel, in regard to specifications of steel and other mundane matters of that sort it is, in the matter of price, a governing factor that overall the Corporation must pay its way. The words become doubly redundant when one considers that the Corporation in Britain has no control whatever over the prices at which steel will be imported into Britain. If, for example, steel is imported from Japan at £10, £20 or £30 per ton less than the economic cost of production in Britain, what a dilemma is the Corporation to be placed in. Does it regard its first duty as the first subsection of Clause 14, that it shall pay its way taking year by year, or does it artificially rig its price to the British market, go to the Board of Trade, and ask for an antidumping order?

This Corporation is supposed to be a commercial concern, a large commercial concern. It must therefore attune its prices to the conditions of the market. I claim that it is wholly unnecessary to write into this Clause any reference whatever to price because the governing factor is found in a later Clause. That will be the overriding factor. If the assurances given by the Minister in Committee are any judge, those assurances were that at all times the Corporation would be conducted on a commercial basis to earn profits. That was the first consideration. It cannot earn those profits unless it attunes its prices to market conditions and has regard to the sharp competitive edge of the price of imported steel.

I therefore hope that my hon. Friends will support this Amendment and if necessary vote for the deletion of these offensive words.

Photo of Mr Michael Alison Mr Michael Alison , Barkston Ash

I speak briefly, seeking clarification and reassurance from the Parliamentary Secretary on the subject of prices. To what extent does this Clause as now drafted actually give the Minister a direct or indirect but effective power over price-fixing?

The phrase in lines 5 and 6 on page 4: and to further the public interest in all respects seems to introduce a non-commercial criterion which is relevant presumably to the mind of the Government. If this is so and the Minister claims some insight or say in the matter of price-fixing by this subsection, does it or does it not conflict with the provisions of the Treaty of Paris, particularly Article III of the Treaty?

The Parliamentary Secretary will know that part of the trouble which the Community has been having is the sort of ding-dong battle between national governments, particularly the French Government, in fixing prices of steel products, the High Authority to be the regulating authority. If it is proposed to write in a specific power to the Government to regulate prices, does the public interest give the Minister authority in any way to intervene or guide? If so, he has clearly introduced a very doubtful feature into the Bill in regard to the possibility of accession to the Treaty of Paris.

Photo of Mr Reginald Freeson Mr Reginald Freeson , Willesden East

The question asked by the hon. Member for Barkston Ash (Mr. Alison) is answered more adequately than I could put into words by quoting from paragraph 36 on page 13 of the original Steel Nationalisation White Paper, on which the legislation is based, under the heading "Protection of Consumers": Although the nationalisation measure will not give the Minister any specific powers on prices, he can be expected to be concerned with questions of price policy in the nationalised iron and steel industry….". That best summarises the position. It is broadly the position which obtains with all the existing nationalised industries. There is no detailed interference. There is a general regard to policy by the Ministry, and the Treasury is also involved in this.

I do not wish in any way to use offensive words or to be provocative or to show a rhinoceros skin, or whatever the other references were to myself earlier this evening, but I find the Amendment a little obscure. I cannot understand how the issue of price can be separated from the question of the general "reasonable demand." The issue of price cannot be separated from the other factors which are set out in the Bill.

Photo of Sir Gerald Nabarro Sir Gerald Nabarro , Worcestershire South

The steel industry today is operating at 70 per cent. capacity. If what the Parliamentary Secretary has just said were correct, all steel prices would have to be raised tomorrow morning by £20 a ton to make the operations economic and profitable.

Photo of Mr Reginald Freeson Mr Reginald Freeson , Willesden East

That is a non sequitur which need not be taken any further by myself. Price is an essential element demand. This is an obvious economic point. The demand for a product will depend not only on type, quality and size, as set out in the Bill, but also by reference to price. This is self-evident, I should have thought, unless there is some aspect of this which was raised in Committee, when I was not present, and which evades me. I do not think I can say anything further on it, except that the reference to price is standard in nationalisation legislation. It is not a new reference introduced into this Bill. There is nothing sinister about it.

Photo of Mr John Peyton Mr John Peyton , Yeovil

I am glad to have the Parliamentary Secretary's assurance that there is not intended to be anything sinister. I cannot for the life of me see that it is necessary to put these words in. What arouses my suspicion is, as my hon. Friend the Member for Barkston Ash (Mr. Alison) has said, that it seems to be somehow associated with this blanket reference at the end which is meaning-less— and to further the public interest in all respects". The Corporation's financial duties are laid down elsewhere in the Bill. Why expand on them here? Either the duties laid upon the Corporation elsewhere are being substantially repeated, or something different is being done at this point in the Bill which is in conflict with those duties.

Photo of Mr Reginald Freeson Mr Reginald Freeson , Willesden East

I do not think that there is a conflict here. The financial aspects of the nationalisation of the industry set out elsewhere in the Bill deal with the broad objects that the Corporation must pursue. Here we are dealing with a particular aspect. The price issue cannot be separated from matters of type, quantity and size. This is a fair general commercial point to make. If it is accepted that there is nothing particularly sinister or peculiar about it in the Government's mind—and there is not—it can be accepted that it should be allowed to stay in the Bill along with the other factors which are joined with it. Clearly, on fulfilling its responsibilities with regard to price, the Corporation will have very much in mind its other financial responsibilities, as referred to by hon. Members, in other parts of the Bill.

9.45 p.m.

Photo of Mr Patrick Jenkin Mr Patrick Jenkin , Wanstead and Woodford

It has been a source of complaint from both sides of the House—and, indeed, it was in Committee also—that the Government did not appear when they drew up this Statute to have learned very much in the 20 years since the previous Statute was drawn up. Over and over again we have heard from Government spokesmen, replying to debates on points moved from this side of the House, "Oh well, this is standard form in a nationalisation Statute." This is an answer which will not do.

The points which have been made by my hon. Friends the Members for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton) and for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro) are absolutely true. This phrase "as part of the general duties of the Corporation" can clearly conflict with the overriding financial duty which is put on the Corporation by Clause 14(1). If one is to have regard to what the Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Technology said in his important speech in the debate on Clause 14, that the Corporation is at all times to be run on strictly commercial grounds, it seems to me that this phrase is superfluous because the Corporation will be bound to charge the prices it can get for its products having regard to the state of the market. If it is intended to do something more than that, the Parliamentary Secretary has not explained what more it is intended to do.

This is a legacy of nearly 30 years of control. When the Import Duties Act, 1932, was passed and the 10 per cent. tariff was imposed, as a quid pro quo the Government took powers to control the prices of steel and they have had those powers ever since. It is part and parcel of this legislation that the Government should abandon anything in the nature of detailed price control such as has been exercised by the Iron and Steel Board since 1953. The phrase hangs on as the vestigial appendix which is regarded as a part of every nationalisation Measure, and it is included here.

If the Government are going to run the Corporation as a commercial concern they should not impose on the Corporation any specific duty with regard to prices. Pricing is an essential aspect of the commercial freedom of any organisation, and if one interferes with the organisation's right to fix prices one is inevitably interfering with its right to run as a commercial organisation. In view of the powerful arguments put by my hon. Friends, we would not be right to let this go through.

Here the Parliamentary Secretary, faced with clear and cogent arguments, has entirely failed to answer them. Could he say now, with the leave of the House, that he would be prepared to look at this again in the light of the overall objectives which the Corporation has got, with the possibility of introducing an Amendment in another place? If he would, I am certain that my hon. Friends would then feel that it would not be right to press the matter to a Division, but if he is not prepared to give that undertaking I can only advise by hon. Friends to support the Amendment in the Division Lobby.

Photo of Mr Reginald Freeson Mr Reginald Freeson , Willesden East

I cannot give that undertaking, because, frankly, I did not find the arguments which were put by the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton) particularly cogent or clear. I said this in the politest possible way during the course of my earlier remarks. The point seems to be an obscure one. May I make it quite clear that I did not say that the question of price being included in the Bill as it now stands means that this was other than the common commercial practice.

The Bill reads that it shall be the task of the Corporation to see that the iron and steel products produced by the public sector are available in such quantities, and are of such types, qualities and sizes, and are available at such prices, as may seem to the Corporation best calculated to satisfy the reasonable demands of manufacturing consumers.

This seems to me to be quite a sensible piece of phraseology, very sensibly commercially, and I can see no point in deleting one of the factors such as prices, any more than one shall seek to delete reference to types, qualities, or sizes, etc. It is part of the general set of factors which must be taken into account.

Question put, That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill:—

The House divided: Ayes 257, Noes 211.

Division No. 243.]AYES[9.51 p.m.
Abse, LeoFowler, GerryMason, Roy
Albu, AustenFraser, John (Norwood)Mayhew, Christopher
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.)Freeson, ReginaldMellish, Robert
Alldritt, WalterGardner, TonyMendelson, J. J.
Allen, ScholefieldGarrett, W. E.Mikardo, Ian
Anderson, DonaldGinsburg, DavidMillan, Bruce
Archer, PeterGourlay, HarryMilne, Edward (Blyth)
Armstrong, ErnestGray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth)Mitchell, R. C. (S'th'pton, Test)
Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.)Gregory, ArnoldMoonman, Eric
Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham)Grey, Charles (Durham)Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe)
Bagier, Gordon A. T.Griffiths, David (Rother Valley)Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw)
Barnett, JoelGriffiths, Rt. Hn. James (Llanelly)Morris, John (Aberavon)
Beaney, AlanGriffiths, Will (Exchange)Moyle, Roland
Bence, CyrilHale, Leslie (Oldham, W.)Murray, Albert
Benn Rt. Hn. Anthony WedgwoodHamilton, James (Bothwell)Newens, Stan
Bennett, James (G'gow, Bridgeton)Harper, JosephNoel-Baker, Rt. Hn. Philip (Derby, S.)
Bidwell, SydneyHarrison, Walter (Wakefield)Norwood, Christopher
Blackburn, F.Hart, Mrs. JudithOakes, Gordon
Boardman, H.Haseldine, NormanOgden, Eric
Booth, AlbertHazell, BertO'Malley, Brian
Boston, TerenceHenig, StanleyOram, Albert E.
Boyden, JamesHerbison, Rt. Hn. MargaretOrbach, Maurice
Braddock, Mrs. E. M.Hobden, Dennis (Brighton, K'town)Orme, Stanley
Bradley, TomHooley, FrankOswald, Thomas
Bray, Dr. JeremyHorner, JohnOwen, Dr. David (Plymouth, S'tn)
Brooks, EdwinHoughton, Rt. Hn. DouglasOwen, Will (Morpeth)
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D.Howarth, Harry (Wellingborough)Paget, R. T.
Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan)Howell, Denis (Small Heath)Palmer, Arthur
Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.)Howie, W.Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles
Buchan, NormanHughes, Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey)Park, Trevor
Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn)Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.)Parker, John (Dagenham)
Butler, Herbert (Hackney, C.)Hughes, Roy (Newport)Parkyn, Brian (Bedford)
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green)Hunter, AdamPavitt, Laurence
Carmichael, NeilHynd, JohnPearson, Arthur (Pontypridd)
Carter-Jones, LewisJackson, Colin (B'h'se & Spenb'gh)Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred
Castle, Rt. Hn. BarbaraJackson, Peter M. (High peak)Pentland, Norman
Coe, DenisJenkins, Hugh (Putney)Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.)
Coleman, DonaldJohnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.)Perry, George H. (Nottingham, S.)
Concannon, J. D.Jones, Dan (Burnley)Price, Christopher (Perry Barr)
Conlan, BernardJones, Rt. Hn. Sir Elwyn (W. Ham, S.)Price, Thomas (Westhoughton)
Corbet, Mrs. FredaJones, J. Idwal (Wrexham)Price, William (Rugby)
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.)Judd, FrankPursey, Cmdr. Harry
Crawshaw, RichardKelley, RichardRandall, Harry
Cronin, JohnKenyon, CliffordRankin, John
Crosland, Rt. Hn. AnthonyKerr, Dr. David (W'worth, Central)Redhead, Edward
Crossman, Rt. Hn. RichardLawson, GeorgeRoberts, Albert (Normanton)
Cullen, Mrs. AliceLeadbitter, TedRoberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Dalyell, TamLee, Rt. Hn. Frederick (Newton)Roberts, Gwilym (Bedfordshire, S.)
Davidson, Arthur (Accrington)Lestor, Miss JoanRobertson, John (Paisley)
Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford)Lever, Harold (Cheetham)Robinson, Rt. Hn. Kenneth (St. P'c'as)
Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.)Lever, L. M. (Ardwick)Robinson, W. O. J. (Walth'stow, E.)
Davies, Harold (Leek)Lewis, Ron (Carlisle)Rodgers, William (Stockton)
Davies, Ifor (Gower)Lomas, KennethRoebuck, Roy
Delargy, HughLoughlin, CharlesRogers, George (Kensington, N.)
Dell, EdmundLuard, EvanRose, Paul
Dewar, DonaldLyon, Alexander W. (York)Ross, Rt. Hn. William
Diamond, Rt. Hn. JohnLyons, Edward (Bradford, E.)Rowland, Christopher (Meriden)
Dickens, JamesMcBride, NeilRyan, John
Dobson, RayMcCann, JohnShaw, Arnold (Ilford, S.)
Doig, PeterMacColl, JamesSheldon, Robert
Driberg, TomMacDermot, NiallShinwell, Rt. Hn. E.
Dunn, James A.Macdonald, A. H.Shore, Peter (Stepney)
Dunnett, JackMcKay, Mrs. MargaretShort, Rt. Hn. Edward (N'c'tle-u-Tyne)
Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth (Exeter)Mackenzie, George (Rutherglen)Short, Mrs. Renée (W'hampton, N. E.)
Dunwoody, Dr. John (F'th & C'b'e)Mackie, JohnSilkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford)
Eadie, AlexMackintosh, John P.Silverman, Julius (Aston)
Edwards, William (Merioneth)Maclennan, RobertSilverman, Sydney (Nelson)
Ellis, JohnMcMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.)Slater, Joseph
Ennals, DavidMcNamara, J. KevinSmall, William
Ensor, DavidMacPherson, MalcolmSnow, Julian
Evans, Ioan L. (Birmin'h'm, Yardley)Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.)Spriggs, Leslie
Fernyhough, E.Mahon, Simon (Bootle)Steele, Thomas (Dunbartonshire, W.)
Finch, HaroldMallalieu, E. L. (Brigg)Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R.
Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston)Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.)Swingler, Stephen
Fletcher, Ted (Darlington)Manuel, ArchieTaverne, Dick
Foot, Sir Dingle (Ipswich)Mapp, CharlesThomas, George (Cardiff, W.)
Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale)Marquand, DavidThornton, Ernest
Ford, BenMarsh, Rt. Hn. RichardTinn, James
Tomney, Frank
Urwin, T. W.White, Mrs. EireneWoodburn, Rt. Hn. A.
Varley, Eric G.Willey, Rt. Hn. FrederickWoof, Robert
Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne Valley)Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.)Yates, Victor
Wallace, GeorgeWilliams, Alan Lee (Hornchurch)Zilliacus, K.
Watkins, David (Consett)Williams, Clifford (Abertillery)
Weitzman, DavidWilliams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin)TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Wellbeloved, JamesWillis, George (Edinburgh, E.)Mr. Charles Whitlock and Mr. Edward Bishop.
Wells, William (Walsall, N.)Wilson, William (Coventry, S.)
Whitaker, BenWinnick, David
Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash)Godber, Rt. Hn. J. B.Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh)
Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead)Goodhart, PhilipMorrison, Charles (Devizes)
Astor, JohnGower, RaymondMunro-Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh
Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n)Grant, AnthonyMurton, Oscar
Awdry, DanielGrant-Ferris, R.Nabarro, Sir Gerald
Baker, W. H. K.Gresham Cooke, R.Nicholls, Sir Harmar
Barber, Rt. Hn. AnthonyGrieve, PercyNoble, Rt. Hn. Michael
Batsford, BrianGriffiths, Eldon (Bury St. Edmunds)Nott, John
Beamish, Col. Sir TuftonGurden, HaroldOnslow, Cranley
Bell, RonaldHall, John (Wycombe)Orr, Capt. L. P. S.
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos. & Fhm)Hall-Davis, A. G. F.Orr-Ewing, Sir Ian
Berry, Hn. AnthonyHamilton, Michael (Salisbury)Osborn, John (Hallam)
Biffen, JohnHarris, Frederic (Croydon, N. W.)Osborne, Sir Cyril (Louth)
Biggs-Davison, JohnHarris, Reader (Heston)Page, Graham (Crosby)
Birch, Rt. Hn. NigelHarrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye)Page, John (Harrow, W.)
Black, Sir CyrilHastings, StephenPearson, Sir Frank (Clitheroe)
Blaker, PeterHawkins, PaulPercival, Ian
Body, RichardHeald, Rt. Hn. Sir LionelPeyton, John
Bossom, Sir CliveHeath, Rt. Hn. EdwardPink, R. Bonner
Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. JohnHeseltine, MichaelPowell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch
Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir EdwardHiggins, Terence L.Price, David (Eastleigh)
Braine, BernardHill, J. E. B.Prior, J. M. L.
Brinton, Sir TattonHirst, GeoffreyPym, Francis
Brown, Sir Edward (Bath)Hobson, Rt. Hn. Sir JohnQuennell, Miss J. M.
Bruce-Gardyne, J.Hogg, Rt. Hn. QuintinRamsden, Rt. Hn. James
Bryan, PaulHolland, PhilipRawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter
Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N&M)Hooson, EmlynRees-Davies, W. R.
Bullus, Sir EricHordern, PeterRenton, Rt. Hn. Sir David
Burden, F. A.Hornby, RichardRidley, Hn. Nicholas
Campbell, GordonHowell, David (Guildford)Ridsdale, Julian
Carlisle, MarkHunt, JohnRodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks)
Carr, Rt. Hn. RobertHutchison, Michael ClarkRossi, Hugh (Hornsey)
Cary, Sir RobertIremonger, T. L.Royle, Anthony
Channon, H. P. G.Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye)Scott, Nicholas
Chichester-Clark, R.Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford)Sharples, Richard
Clark, HenryJohnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead)Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby)
Clegg, WalterJones, Arthur (Northants, S.)Sinclair, Sir George
Cooke, RobertJopling, MichaelSmith, John
Cooper-Key, Sir NeillJoseph, Rt. Hn. Sir KeithStainton, Keith
Cordle, JohnKerby, Capt. HenrySteel, David (Roxburgh)
Costain, A. P.Kimball, MarcusStodart, Anthony
Craddock, Sir Beresford (Spelthorne)King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.)Summers, Sir Spencer
Crawley, AldanKitson, TimothyTaylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Crouch, DavidKnight, Mrs. JillTaylor, Edward M.(G'gow, Cathcart)
Crowder, F. P.Lambton, ViscountTaylor, Frank (Moss Side)
Cunningham, Sir KnoxLancaster, Col. C. G.Teeling, Sir William
Currie, G. B. H.Langford-Holt, Sir JohnTemple, John M.
Dalkeith, Earl ofLegge-Bourke, Sir HarryThatcher, Mrs. Margaret
Dance, JamesLewis, Kenneth (Rutland)Thorpe, Jeremy
d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir HenryLloyd, Ian (P'tsm'th, Langstone)Tilney, John
Dean, Paul (Somerset, N.)Lloyd, Rt. Hn. Selwyn (Wirral)Turton, Rt. Hn. R. H.
Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford)Longden, Gilbertvan Straubenzee, W. R.
Digby, Simon WingfieldLoveys, W. H.Vaughan-Morgan, Rt. Hn. Sir John
Doughty, CharlesLubbock, EricVickers, Dame Joan
Drayson, G. B.McAdden, Sir StephenWalker, Peter (Worcester)
du Cann, Rt. Hn. EdwardMacArthur, IanWalker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek
Eden, Sir JohnMaclean, Sir FitzroyWall, Patrick
Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton)Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham)Walters, Dennis
Eyre, ReginaldMaddan, MartinWard, Dame Irene
Farr, JohnMaginnis, John E.Weatherill, Bernard
Fisher, NigelMarples, Rt. Hn. ErnestWells, John (Maidstone)
Fletcher-Cooke, CharlesMarten, NeilWhitelaw, Rt. Hn. William
Forrest, GeorgeMaude, AngusWills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater)
Fortescue, TimMaudling, Rt. Hn. ReginaldWilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Foster, Sir JohnMawby, RayWood, Rt. Hn. Richard
Galbraith, Hn. T. G.Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J.Woodnutt, Mark
Giles, Rear-Adm. MorganMills, Peter (Torrington)Worsley, Marcus
Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk, C.)Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.)Wylie, N. R.
Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.)Miscampbell, NormanYounger, Hn. George
Glover, Sir DouglasMitchell, David (Basingstoke)TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Glyn, Sir RichardMonro, HectorMr. R. W. Elliott and Mr. Jasper More.

It being after Ten o'clock, further consideration of the Bill, as amended, stood adjourned.