Public Employees

Oral Answers to Questions — National Finance – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 22 November 1966.

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Photo of Mr Julian Ridsdale Mr Julian Ridsdale , Harwich 12:00, 22 November 1966

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what has been the increase in numbers of public employees in both Government and local government service since 15th October, 1964.

Photo of Mr Jack Diamond Mr Jack Diamond , Gloucester

The increase in the Civil Service, both industrial and non-industrial, excluding the Post Office, between 1st October, 1964, and 1st July, 1966, was 9,000. Including the Post Office, the increase was 26,000. As regards local government, there was a rise of 159,047 in the two years.

Photo of Mr Julian Ridsdale Mr Julian Ridsdale , Harwich

As these are such serious figures, would the right hon. Gentleman say what the increase in Government spending is to pay for these additional employees?

Photo of Mr Jack Diamond Mr Jack Diamond , Gloucester

The simplest way of calculating the figure is to allow about £1,000 per civil servant. But in order to put the figures in perspective, I should say that the proportionate increase among centrally employed civil servants in the last nearly two years is broadly in line with the increase over the first four years of this decade.

Photo of Mr Frank Allaun Mr Frank Allaun , Salford East

While appreciating that if we increase the social services we need more civil servants, is it not wrong that with 440,000 men in the Forces we have 350,000 civil servants looking after them?

Photo of Mr Jack Diamond Mr Jack Diamond , Gloucester

My hon. Friend rightly points out that if we increase services we have to increase our manpower to carry them. The House will recollect that, in addition to increased work, there has been a reduction in Civil Service hours of work.

Photo of Mr Quintin Hogg Mr Quintin Hogg , St Marylebone

Do not the figures given by the right hon. Gentleman reveal a certain amount of luxuriant growth which might be a suitable subject of pruning?

Photo of Mr Jack Diamond Mr Jack Diamond , Gloucester

I am grateful for what the right hon. and learned Gentleman has said in relation to the figure which I gave for increases in the number of local government employees. This is a matter which one should look into very carefully.

Photo of Mr Emanuel Shinwell Mr Emanuel Shinwell , Easington

Is there any indication that when we have a sufficient supply of computers we shall have fewer civil servants?

Photo of Mr Jack Diamond Mr Jack Diamond , Gloucester

I think that that is a rather different question.