Orders of the Day — National Coal Board (Additional Powers) Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 1 November 1966.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr John Eden Mr John Eden , Bournemouth West 12:00, 1 November 1966

Echoing the closing sentiments of my hon. Friend the Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley), I should like to begin my speech by saying that, when the Government come to the House to ask it to agree to an extension of the powers of a nationalised industry and in that way to vote it more money, we should get far more justification than we were given by the Minister of Power when he moved the Second Reading.

His speech was extremely thin. He gave no indication of the future planning by the National Coal Board. He did his best to sketch over what are clearly the controversial aspects of the Bill, so apparently, as to try to avoid any sort of scrutiny or discussion. Those of us who are members of the Committee discussing the Iron and Steel Bill know that this is not the first time that the Minister has treated proceedings of the House to that sort of scarce and scanty attention.

My hon. Friends have made it abundantly clear that we object to this proposal on commercial and economic grounds and that we are highly suspicious of it on political grounds. It is right that many of my hon. Friends should have started by having a somewhat critical look, inevitably, at the Coal Board's existing operations. If we are to be asked to approve an extension of what a nationalised body is already doing, we are justified in having—I believe that we are required to have—a careful look at the manner in which its present obligations are being discharged.

The National Coal Board is confronted with a number of very substantial problems at the moment, and none of us has attempted to minimise the size of the tasks with which it is faced. None of us on this side—I say this quite clearly, lest at any later stage in my speech my remarks become misconstrued—in any way detracts from the very deep, human considerations involved in what the Coal Board is currently trying to do in progressively closing down the uneconomic pits. It has a tremendous job here in the redeployment and, in many cases, retraining of the men it employs.

It has also a tremendous task in trying to ensure the proper employment of the capital investment. Some of my hon. Friends were taken to task for their reference to Bevercotes. My hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton), in his usual colourful and effective language, described our sentiments on this point. I would just add to what has already been said on this subject by in viting the Board, and Lord Robens in particular, to recognise that the best way of protecting the investment at the coal face is to make sure that the investment it already has there earns money and is fully employed. My hon. Friend the Member for Barkston Ash (Mr. Alison) developed another aspect touched on by others of my hon. Friends—the Board's attempts to develop supplies of smokeless fuel. Reference has already been made to the enormous capital expenditure involved in the Immingham port development scheme.

The point of drawing attention to this aspect of the Board's existing operations and obligations is not to denigrate the Board, not to pinpoint, highlight and accentuate or in any way exaggerate any failings or weaknesses, but simply to underline the fact that it already has more than enough to cope with and that it is unnecessary for it now to turn to wholly new fields for investment and exploration. Further, we are considering the request of an industry to extend its operations into a highly speculative enterprise when the industry in its own sphere has already over many years of trading incurred a very substantial deficit. The House was recently asked to approve the writing-off of £415 million because the industry is still uneconomic.

I do not think that this is the time for the Board to embark on new ventures, and particularly a venture of such a highly speculative nature as this, for which it was never designed, and for which it is wholly unsuited. The Board exists to get and distribute coal in the most efficient manner possible and it has a long way to go before it achieves even the standard of efficiency in this respect mentioned by some hon. Members opposite.

A great deal of comment has been made on the extent to which the Board is diversified. In considering this aspect I read, as no doubt other hon. Members did, an article by Richard Bailey in the August issue of the Westminster Bank Review I have the highest regard for Richard Bailey though I did not agree with much of his article. He said that in any discussion of the future of a particular nationalised industry … it is difficult to separate the economic grain from the political chaff. I do not think that political chaff is the right description for some of the political objections I have to the bringing forward of this Bill, but I hope, first of all, to look at such elements of economic grain as can be found.

The first lies in the argument that, as the Board has already diversified extensively and substantially, there is no real fundamental reason why it should not go further, as is asked for in this Bill. In parenthesis, I briefly declare an interest which is already known to some hon. Members. I am engaged with a company whose concern is to assist in the diversification and merging of industrial companies.

As is well known to hon. Members, the Board is already substantially involved in brickmaking, concrete, flooring, damp courses, in the making of heaters, in tar products, in pitch polymers and other aspects of the chemical industry. It is a substantial and wide-ranging list of activities, but far and away the major part of what is already being done is the logical extension of its primary function of the mining, processing and marketing of coal. This was clearly anticipated in the terms of the original nationalisation Act. I thought my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. J. H. Osborn) argued on this aspect very thoroughly. We have to make up our minds, and hon. Members opposite have to answer for themselves the question, are we now contemplating the creation of a new giant industrial holding company the interests of which will go far outside the primary purposes for which the coal industry was originally nationalised?

There are advantages in industrial holding companies, but these advantages exist only where there is present an abundance of skilled management talent. I think it important to emphasise that point. It is no good widely diversifying operations unless we can be certain that we have the proper structure, the proper management talent, to handle the diverse interests embraced. This test of diversification must apply equally to the National Coal Board.

I carry this a stage further. It more than any other of the public industries, dependent to a substantial extent as it is upon taxpayers' money, must subject its diversification proposals to the pretty rigid test of whether any new scheme or venture assists in its primary function. If not, I agree very much with the sentiments expressed in an article in the Economist on 22nd January this year that if this cannot be shown it is using up scarce resources of capital and manpower.

On this point I question the interventions of a number of hon. Members opposite who spoke most feelingly from their experience as members of the National Union of Mineworkers and as men who have been engaged in this great industry. I cannot see how this new departure into a totally different field from that in which it is currently engaged and for which it was primarily established will, to use Lord Robens' words, assist in the protection of the investment at the coal face. In other words, I do not see how it will help the miners themselves.

My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucestershire, South (Mr. Corfield) referred to the position of Staveley Chemicals. I think this raises wider questions than other aspects of the Board's existing diversification. Staveley Chemicals has been set up in order primarily to manufacture P.V.C., but, as my hon. Friend made clear, in the articles of association it can go into the full range of the chemical industry.

I wonder if the Parliamentary Secretary who is to reply to the debate will make clear that it will not be in order, should this Bill be passed into law, for the National Coal Board to use its supplies of natural gas—assuming it gets those supplies—for the purposes of the operations of Staveley Chemicals. I should like to have this spelled out because I think it is basic to our whole approach. Further than that, am I right in saying that, if at the outset this appears to be the case, it will not be so entitled under the terms of the Bill? In other words, if subsequently it wished to do so, it would not be a case of it merely going to the right hon. Gentleman for him to promote a further Measure before the House to give it powers to use its natural gas in that regard?