Leasehold Reform

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 28 February 1966.

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Photo of Mr Arthur Probert Mr Arthur Probert , Aberdare 12:00, 28 February 1966

I am sure that the constituents of Cardiff, North, and Barry will pay due attention to what the hon. Gentleman has said.

The crux of the matter is: what is a fair price? I do not consider that a fair price on reversion includes the bricks and mortar which have not been contributed by the landowner. The hon. Member for Gloucestershire, South (Mr. Corfield) dubbed the White Paper—or so one could deduce from his remarks—a wholly immoral document. I do not in any way doubt his integrity; he has been consistent in these matters ever since he entered the House of Commons. I would assume from what he has said that his is the voice of the Opposition in dealing with leasehold reform.

But if he considers the proposals put forward by my right hon. Friend as immoral, what would he consider to be the position of friends of mine who had reached the age of 70 and had lived in their home for 55 years, and then found all at once that they were to become tenants of their home, that in doing so they would have to pay a very large bill for repairs to put the house into the conditions that the landlord thought necessary, and that they would also have to pay £1,200 for the house which they had considered their home for all those years? If that is not immoral, I do not know what is. In putting an end to that, the White Paper, I consider, is a moral document and not an immoral one.

The right hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames was apparently in great difficulty. He said that the Conservative Party had given great attention to the problem and had come to certain conclusions. As my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Dulwich (Mr. S. C. Silkin) said, what the Conservative Party produced was a veritable mouse. The right hon. Gentleman's difficulty arose from the fact that he realised that in a space of 16 months the Government had produced proposals. The right hon. Gentleman said that they were hastily produced. Every week hon. Gentlemen opposite say that the Government have been in office for a long time but are not producing anything. Now that the Government have produced proposals, the right hon. Gentleman says that they are hastily prepared.

In effect, the right hon. Gentleman's speech was grudging appreciation of the fact that people in many parts of Lancashire, the whole of South Wales, and so on, have come to the views expressed by the Government in the White Paper. I urge the right hon. Gentleman, when he considers these proposals again on behalf of the Conservative Party, to consider the views of his hon. Friends the Members for Barry and Cardiff, North, for they agree fundamentally with the taking away from the valuation of the bricks and mortar on the land. This is a point of fundamental importance.

This day is a momentous occasion in the history of South Wales. We are emancipating not just houses, but the homes of thousands of people in South Wales. In so far as the White Paper affects England, the Englishman now owes a debt to South Wales and the Welsh Members for their consistent approach to this problem. We owe a great debt to my right hon. Friend for bringing these proposals forward. We who have been conversant with the problem for many years have appreciated the great difficulties inherent in the system. Probably he has had a great fight with the purely academic legal mind in this respect.

I do not say that with any disrespect to the legal approach to the matter, because I fully appreciate the difficulties. But here we face moral principles above purely legal ones. We should also pay great tribute to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales, because we realise that he has been the watchdog for Welsh interests in this matter. I repeat, today is a very momentous occasion.

We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mr. McBride) about the question of the sanctity of contract. I am glad that that matter has been dealt with, however briefly, today. I spoke about the matter some years ago. In my area, the sanctity of contract in the matter of leasehold is absolute bunkum. The people know it is. If they wanted a roof over their heads, they had to lease a piece of ground. By leasing that piece of ground for 99 years, they helped to produce the wealth of the country by manning the mines, iron works, steel works, and so on. We owe a great tribute to them for that, but they simply did not have any choice in the matter, I will not deal with the proposals here, because they have been dealt with adequately already by a number of hon. Members, and later we shall hear the views of the Secretary of State for Wales. I think that they can be adequately dealt with in Committee when we deal with the Bill.

However, I want to express my full appreciation of two important points in the White Paper. One is the departure from the old principle of buying leasehold property—the separation of the bricks and mortar from the land. This is fundamental to the problem in South Wales, and I am glad that the Labour Government have been able to deal with it. The other aspect—and I say this with some reservation—is the choice of the 50-year period. My hon. and learned Friend the Member for Dulwich posed the valid question whether, during that 50-year period, possible purchase can be reconsidered.

I want to mention the debt that the people of Wales owe to the Prime Minister. On two occasions in South Wales, in 1964, he pledged that he would pay due attention and give priority to the problem of leasehold. He bound this up with the other vexed questions of rent and land reform. We have the Rent Act on the Statute Book, the Land Commission Bill is before the House, and now we have these leasehold proposals. I hope that in a few weeks' time my right hon. Friend the Minister of Land and Natural Resources, if he is successful—as I hope he will be—in retaining office, will be presenting the proposals in this White Paper in a Bill before the House of Commons.