—in smaller red-brick universities into which hon. Members opposite, or one or two of them, would like to divide the University of Wales. All that is necessary for progress is for the people in Wales to make sure that they make the University of Wales work.
The truth is that there are some empire-builders within the University of Wales who want to build up their own empires. We know that many of the difficulties which are put forward by defederalisers are grossly exaggerated. There is no difficulty within the federal University of Wales that cannot be solved by common sense and a reasonable approach on all sides. Some people, however, are determined to break up the University of Wales.
The staffs have been mentioned. It is true that some distinguished scholars and heads of department are opposed to a federal university. Equally distinguished heads of department and scholars are in favour of it. What is important, however, is that the people of Wales set up the University of Wales. It is not only the staff and students who have to be considered, but the generality of the Welsh people.