Orders of the Day — Territorial Army

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 16 December 1965.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr Emanuel Shinwell Mr Emanuel Shinwell , Easington 12:00, 16 December 1965

Imagine the right hon. Gentleman saying that to me! If I were a vindictive man, what would be my rejoinder to that. But the right hon. Gentleman is, if he will forgive my saying so, an extinct volcano, to use the expression used by someone opposite in the past about some of his Conservative friends.

The right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition said that he had gone to the Highlands. What happened when he went there? He got plenty of publicity—he saw to that—but not a word about unemployment in the Highlands, not a word about depopulation in the Highlands, not a word about agriculture, or the development of new industries. All he heard in the Highlands was the sorry story of the possible destruction of the Territorial Army.

I will bring this argument to a conclusion, though I could do what some hon. Members have done and what my hon. Friend did—indulge in reminiscences. I could speak about what happened when I was Financial Secretary to the War Office in 1929. What a story I could tell of what a wonderful organisation this force was then—how adequate, how efficient. Again, I could speak of what happened in 1947. A letter appeared in The Times the other day which has been quoted quite frequently by hon. Members. It was signed by six field marshals. Some of them are very good friends of mine, I was intimately acquainted with them—indeed, at one time, some of them were my employees. Nevertheless, they had not a constructive suggestion to make on how to reform the Territorial forces. But I saw that Field Marshal Montgomery would not join them in signing that letter—and I back Montgomery against the lot. I welcome him to the Labour Party—the Conservatives can keep the rest.

I venture to say that this matter is being regarded far too seriously by some hon. Members. The hon. Member for Clitheroe almost wept at times. This is just a question of whether we want to build up an adequate defence force, and those who at one time or another who have been engaged in that task know how difficult it is. I can understand how my right hon. Friends have been frustrated, disturbed and harassed, and have been subjected to all kinds of military advice in recent months before coming to a conclusion. They are doing their best in the circumstances on the advice they have, and we have to accept it.

I therefore suggest that we accept the White Paper—leaving out paragraphs 3 and 4; the speculation, the conjectures the assumptions, because we do not know what kind of a war it will be. My hope is that we shall not have another war. At the same time, I have to say to some of my hon. Friends—they do not always agree with me, but I cannot help that, because I do not always agree with them—that we must take precautions in the interest of the security of the people. Therefore, we must have a measure of defence. I know that it is costly, but we must put up with that until we can promote a measure of disarmament. That is the object of every hon. Member in the House. On that we are agreed.

I suggest that we agree to accept the White Paper and make the best of it. Some people say that it will not work. How do we know that it will not work? One thing I know is that the existing Territorial Army will not work; it is not adequate; it is not efficient; it is not effective, and it is never likely to be so. So we must accept something rational. We must accept a change. For a number of years the War Office and the Ministry of Defence have been demanding that there should be radical change. Now the time has come for it, and we ought to accept it.