Forestry Commission (Estimates Committee's Reports)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 14 June 1965.

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Photo of Mr Frederick Willey Mr Frederick Willey , Sunderland North 12:00, 14 June 1965

I shall come to that in a moment. I have dealt with the part-time Chairman and the full-time executive members. We now have five part-time members, and as will be seen from the Report they will be chosen for their knowledge and experience of commerce, the timber trade, trade union matters, forestry and the countryside.

The position of woodland owners was raised. Again, I pay tribute to the woodland owners who have served on the Commission. They have contributed to the work of the Commission. There will be places for the woodland owners on the new Commission.

I have defined the categories of people to whom we look for members of the Commission. I would emphasise two points. One is that the commissioners are not representatives. It would be wrong to regard them as representatives. They have to be appointed for what, in the light of their individual capabilities, they are likely to contribute to the Commission. It would be wrong if they had any representative character.

The other point that I wish to emphasise is that in creating the Commission we are bound by the Forestry Acts, and, as has been said during the debate, the numbers are limited. In fact, the Commission is limited to nine members other than the Chairman. This limits the scope of appointment to the Commission. To go beyond this would mean legislation.

That is the reorganisation which we have carried out with regard to the Commission, and it is perhaps significant that it has not come in for any serious criticism. I think that we are right to have gone rather further than the Estimates Committee recommended. In the light of its recommendation, and of modern developments with regard to any such board, I think that we have made the Commission a more effective organisation by providing for full-time members.

We have followed this reorganisation through to the Commission's staff, because we have full-time members coming through to the Board. Broadly speaking, we have grouped the staff according to the new commissioners. We have provided, also, for further reorganisation, which I think is fully justified on a review of the work of the Commission. We have not only regrouped the staff to match the new Commission, but we have streamlined it and simplified the administration. That is why we have a straight run through to the conservancies, and greater delegation to them. In reply to the hon. Gentleman, perhaps I might point out that having a straight line through from the Commission to the conservancies means less centralisation, and it is for this reason that we are winding up the national directorates; this is giving conservancies a greater responsibility. Following the devolution of political responsibilities, particularly in the case of Wales, and because the directorates were more or less post offices, we are providing for more effective decisions to be taken in the countries concerned. We have three forestry Ministries now, and what we are doing is providing greater direct responsibility for the conservancies in each of the countries. A fairly large office of the Forestry Commission will be situated in Edinburgh. It will consist of 40 to 50 people with a senior officer who will have full powers of delegation within the Commission in regard to acquisitions, and by far the greater part of the Commission's acquisitions of land now takes place in Scotland. He will be the main link between the Scottish Departments and the Commission.

I was asked about the position with regard to Wales. The Welsh directorate office at Aberystwith will be replaced by the North Wales Conservancy office which will move from Shrewsbury during the next year. Contrary to what the hon. Gentleman thinks, this will mean an increase in staff at Aberystwith of between 20 and 25.