Orders of the Day — Clause 1. — (Abolition of Death Penalty for Murder.)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 19 May 1965.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr William Deedes Mr William Deedes , Ashford 12:00, 19 May 1965

I will deal with that point quite shortly without going beyond what you, Dr. King, have asked.

The Amendment is not simply a mechanical device designed to fill the gap. It would afford to the court the discretion which many of us think would be a wise and right thing to do and which meets the support of a great many right hon. and hon. Members. There seem to be three reasons why the Committee should give very serious attention to the Amendment.

First, it really seems hardly credible, notwithstanding what the hon. Member has said, that those responsible for the Bill should wish to report it to the House lacking what is, in effect, the whole nub and purpose of the Bill. This is not a detail which has been struck from the texture of the Bill; it is the main point.

Secondly, all right hon. and hon. Members are agreed, whether they be retentionists or abolitionists, that if hanging goes an adequate alternative must be provided. There is no dispute about that. But this is the one point that the Bill, as the hon. Gentleman wants it to be reported, will fail to provide, according to the hon. Gentleman, and that after many hours of work. Our proceedings have so far occupied about 46 hours—about one hour for each line of the Bill. Yet it is proposed to report the Bill to the House with its main purpose unfulfilled. We do not feel that this is an acceptable solution to the difficulty we got into last week.

Thirdly, the Committee should also consider that the sponsors of the Bill clearly envisage that they will be able to refill the gap at a later stage, but the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Mr. Hiley) is exceedingly relevant. They presuppose that they will carry the Amendment when they wish to do so. It may well be that they will carry the Amendment, but equally they may not.

Accidents occur, and accidents seems to occur fairly frequently to this Bill. I do not think that I have ever been concerned with such an accident-prone Measure as this one. To presuppose at this stage that the Amendment which the sponsors intend to put down on Report is assured of success is a very risky way of going about it. Where will we be if that Amendment is defeated? I must not carry this too far at this point, but it is right that the Committee should see the way it may be going. If an Amendment on Report to fill the gap were defeated, there would be no other opportunity to fill the gap.