Armed Forces, Germany (Support Costs)

Oral Answers to Questions — Education and Science – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 6 May 1965.

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Photo of Mr Anthony Kershaw Mr Anthony Kershaw , Stroud 12:00, 6 May 1965

asked the Prime Minister whether, following the further Ministerial talks, he will now make a statement on German support costs.

Photo of Mr Harold Wilson Mr Harold Wilson , Huyton

I have nothing to add to the Answer given on 15th April by my right hon. Friend the Lord President to a Question by the hon. Member for South Angus (Mr. Bruce-Gardyne).

Photo of Mr Anthony Kershaw Mr Anthony Kershaw , Stroud

Does the Prime Minister recollect that on 11th March he said that if he did not get an agreement within a few weeks he would denounce the existing agreement at the beginning of April? Is not his reply very disappointing? Is it not a further example of his talent for words rather than deeds?

Photo of Mr Harold Wilson Mr Harold Wilson , Huyton

What we are concerned with, despite the hon. Gentleman's words, is trying to get the matter put right. As I have said, my hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury is going over to settle the matter, one way or the other, once and for all, on 10th and 11th June.

Photo of Mr Christopher Soames Mr Christopher Soames , Bedford

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the rapid progress to which he referred on 11th March, which he expected in those few weeks? When he was in Bonn, is he aware that the Germans were at that moment in the course of discussions with the French, leading to agreement for the supply of £136 million worth of arms from France? Would he expect to get an order of anything like that character? Is this his idea of knocking hell out of them—or have the Germans told him to go to blazes?

Photo of Mr Harold Wilson Mr Harold Wilson , Huyton

Not bad for a first effort, but I had better say to the right hon. Gentleman that a great deal of progress is going on at official level and, in addition, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence has been over there discussing this question.

With regard to the right hon. Gentleman's story about the £135 million, he really is big enough now not to believe everything he reads on the front page of yesterday's Daily Express. That particular statement gave a general figure covering all possible conceivable projects—many not yet agreed, or even on the drawing board—for the next 10 years. It bears no comparison with the figures we are talking about for this year and last year, but is a figure which is included in the German orders that were let slip to the French when the right hon. Gentleman was a member of the Cabinet last year.

Photo of Mr Christopher Soames Mr Christopher Soames , Bedford

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the progress he has made? He was telling us two months ago that if he did not make progress rapidly in the next two months he was going to alter the agreement. Is he satisfied with the progress made, and has he anything tangible to support this two months later?

Photo of Mr Harold Wilson Mr Harold Wilson , Huyton

The answer is that my hon. Friend the Chief Secretary has been there for the second part of the negotiations which I started. A lot of work is going on, and if we do not get satisfaction I have already told the House what our attitude will be.

Photo of Mr Emanuel Shinwell Mr Emanuel Shinwell , Easington

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the previous Government, after several years of negotiations with the West German Federal Government, and under pressure from myself and many other members of the previous Opposition, never reached a satisfactory con- clusion? At the same time, would my right hon. Friend take note of the report about the arrangements between the West German Government and the French Government, and try to get some satisfactory arrangements with the German Government?

Photo of Mr Harold Wilson Mr Harold Wilson , Huyton

I am well aware of the achievements, if one can use that word, of the previous Government but in reference to the particular deal that was trumpeted by the Daily Express yesterday, which has so excited the right hon. Gentleman, so far as we can obtain information on this, there is little, and possibly nothing, new in this compared with the orders already placed with the French Government by the German Government when the right hon. Gentleman was in the Cabinet.