Control of Office and Industrial Development Bill

Part of Ballot for Notices of Motions – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 14 April 1965.

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Photo of Sir John Hall Sir John Hall , Wycombe 12:00, 14 April 1965

I am sure that the House would wish to congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham (Mr. Awdry) on the way he moved this important Amendment. He was brief, but to the point, and he made the issues in the Amendment very clear indeed. He was supported by my hon. Friend the Member for Wanstead and Woodford (Mr. Patrick Jenkin), who spoke with particular knowledge of this problem, the allocation of office accommodation. The House is indebted to both of my hon. Friends for their contribution to our consideraticn of the Bill.

The President of the Board of Trade, in replying with his usual sympathy—to which, I must say, we got very much accustomed during Committee—emphasised that to retain the word "particular" in the Bill was very important. As I understood him, he was really saying that because the word "particular" is used, the Board of Trade shall have particular regard to the need for promoting the better distribution of employment it implied that other matters would be taken into consideration at the same time.

This is an interesting point, but I am not quite sure how it squares with the dislike which was expressed to this word "particular" by the Minister of State when, it Committee, he replies to a debate on a similar Amendment. He said: It is the word 'particular' which is troubling us. It would mean having particular regard to the factors which are mentioned, whereas transport might become the overriding consideration and could not then be taken into consideration."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, Standing Committee D, 18th February, 1965; c. 141.] One of the reasons why we tabled the Amendment was to meet this dislike to the word "particular" expressed by the Minister of State, before going on to the more general question in Amendment No. 9.

My hon. Friends and I were persuaded to table this Amendment in a slightly different form because also of the words of the President of the Board of Trade when he wound up the debate in Committee on this matter. I have no doubt that the President of the Board of Trade remembers these words. He said: do not think that there is much between us on this"— and I think that that is right; I do not think there is much between us on this— and I am prepared to consider whether we are right in our view, which appears to me to justify the Bill in its present form. I cannot promise the introduction of an Amendment on Report because I am not now convinced that the argument of hon. Members opposite is right and mine is wrong, but as this is a matter of interpretation of drafting I am certainly prepared to consider whether this is the best form of word."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, Standing Committee D, 18th February, 1965; c. 148.] Obviously, the President of the Board of Trade, who will always carry out what he promises in Committee to do, has considered the wording and has come to the conclusion—as we on this side of the House consider, wrongly—that the wording is all right, and that our Amendments are not appropriate.

The President of the Board of Trade will remember that when similar Amendments were moved in Committee I pointed out that they were to cover two quite distinct points. The first was as expressed here, for providing adequate office space to meet the requirements of the commercial, industrial and professional life of the country". to ensure that the Board of Trade shall have particular regard to the provision of adequate office space to meet the requirements of the activities I have mentioned.

There was also the second point about the modernisation of industry, because it is not enough to provide for the better distribution of employment merely by looking at it almost exclusively from the point of view of offices. We have to look at it from the point of view also of industry as a whole throughout the country.

One must not be led away by a desire to relieve pressure in one part of the country to direct employment to another part, which, in the long term, will reduce the efficiency of industry and perhaps prevent modernisation. This is why we tabled the second Amendment. I apologise for repeating something that I said during the Committee stage, but I think that it is critical to the Bill. I said: I believe it to be essential for these Amendments to be written into the Clause. It is what I call the charter Clause of the Bill. I think that the right hon. Gentleman will agree that it is the charter Clause of the Bill. It establishes the purpose and spirit of the Bill. Therefore, we believe it to be essential that the Clause should be clear and that people should know precisely what it sets out to do." —[OFFICIAL REPORT, Standing Committee D, 18th February, 1965, c. 134.] That is what we have tried to do in the Amendment. We have tried to make clear what the considerations are which make it necessary to have the Bill, and the considerations which must be borne in mind in applying its provisions.

I agree that there may be a case for saying that if the word "particular" is used it may limit the factors to be taken into consideration specifically to the various activities that we have tabled in the Amendment. It is because of this fear that we decided—I must add encouraged by the Minister of State, who I regret is not here—to delete the word"particular". In our innocence we thought that having done that we would have met the objection raised by the Government. We thought that once we had deleted it, the problem would be solved, but we have been sadly disillusioned.