Murder (Abolition of Death Penalty) Bill (Committee Stage)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 18 March 1965.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr Herbert Bowden Mr Herbert Bowden , Leicester South West 12:00, 18 March 1965

I cannot give way. The right hon. and learned Member for Epsom (Sir P. Rawlinson) and I have cut our time to the minimum to allow other hon. Members to take part in the debate.

It is a misunderstanding in the speeches of a number of Members on that side of the House to assume that any action is necessary, after a Second Reading of a Bill, to send it upstairs. It was not necessary for us to take any action. As I said on 5th March, I assumed that the Bill would follow the normal procedure of Private Members' Bills and go upstairs. That is precisely what I meant and what I assumed. It was the right hon. and learned Gentleman who moved that it be taken on the Floor of the House, and a Division took place and he was defeated.

The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Rushcliffe has referred to the question of Government time. He says that we have got plenty of time. He says there is no need, so early in the Session, or now, to economise on time. Let me remind him that although the Session started only in November 41 Public Bills have already been introduced. I accept his point that some of them are hangovers. One such was the War Damage Bill. That was the child of right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite, and they turned that child out and left it to us, and we are carrying it—though it is hardly a baby, for the baby is growing up.

The point was made by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Thirsk and Malton and others about the inconvenience to the House of sitting in the mornings. I accept that it is an inconvenience to sit in the mornings. It is an inconvenience to those who have something else to do, and it may not be as convenient for Ministers who have apointments, and so on. It may not be as convenient to Members who have to be in court in the mornings. It may not be as convenient to doctors who are in their surgeries in the mornings. But, surely, in all these things Parliament must come first. If we really argue that the hours of the Sittings of Parliament must be adjusted to suit the convenience of all Members at all times, we should be sitting some peculiar hours. Parliament must come first, and Members must adjust their lives and their interests outside to suit the hours of Parliament.

I was asked why, in the view of the Government, it was thought necessary to have free votes on the Bill, and why we are not to adopt it as a Government Bill. The answer is simple. The answer is that on this side of the House we are of the opinion that there are many measures —I am thinking particularly of Sunday observance, measures of that sort—which are not party political measures at all. There is a great deal which ought to be done. The Government could introduce a Bill; a private Member could introduce a Bill; the decision on the issue must be by a free vote of the House. That is our view, and that is what we shall do on a number of occasions as legislation comes along.

The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Rushcliffe talked about the Motion on the Paper.