Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 11 December 1964.
Mr Stephen Swingler
, Newcastle-under-Lyme
12:00,
11 December 1964
I am about to come to the procedure which we shall adopt, which differs from the procedure followed by the Minister of Transport of the hon. Gentleman's Government.
When the Board has the information and a definite proposal is made, instead of that proposal, as advocated by the right hon. Member for Wallasey, being made immediately under Section 56 of the Transport Act, involving the mounting of elaborate proceedings, the engagement of expensive lawyers, and so on, the proposal will be made to my right hon. Friend in accordance with his statement of 4th November.
My right hon. Friend will then consider, as a matter of urgency whether the proposal is likely to conflict with future transport plans for the London area. This will be done immediately, and if, in my right hon. Friend's opinion, the Board's proposal is likely to conflict with these plans—in other words, if he judges it to be a major closure—he will ask the Board to withdraw the proposal. That is what will be done, and that is how the Richmond-Broad Street line comes under the statement made by my right hon. Friend.
I am sorry that it is not possible for me to say categorically that the proposal will be judged as a major proposal. It would be quite wrong for me to prejudge it. I should not even know what I was prejudging. The proposal does not yet exist in the form of a definite and precise statement. When we have a definite proposal we shall judge it, as my right hon. Friend said, against the background of of future economic and population trends in this area, taking fully into account the possible economic and social consequences, including road congestion, a very important point mentioned by some hon. Members. We shall certainly take into account the possible social benefits which an urban railway line can bring —social benefits which do not necessarily appear in the balance sheet of the operator of the line.
Reference has been made to the London Transportation Study. This is being undertaken by consultants under the guidance of a group of officials of the London County Council, the Railways Board, the London Transport Board and the Ministry of Transport, and is working now on the projection of a detailed pattern of the future demand for transport in the London area. The study is based on a very detailed survey which covers journeys by all forms of transport in the London area, including the Richmond-Broad Street line. I have no doubt whatever that the London Transportation Study Group will need to consider the part which the Richmond-Broad Street line could play in London's future transport system.
Therefore, when I say that if a proposal comes to the Minister, in accordance with the announcement made on 4th November the existence of the London Transportation Study and the discussions that it is having and the conclusions that it may reach about the future pattern and needs of transport in London constitute one of the most important factors which will be taken into account.
That is the assurance that I give hon. Gentlemen. I know, because they pressed the previous Minister for a decision on this matter, that it is not completely satisfactory to them. However, I can tell them two things. The first is that very soon indeed we shall have from the Railways Board either the cancellation of the proposal, or the full proposal or a modified proposal, and that will go through the "early sift" procedure and be immediately considered by the Minister.
The Question having been proposed after Four o'clock and the debate having continued for half an hour Mr. Speaker adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
Adjourned at twenty-seven minutes to Five o'clock.
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