Orders of the Day — Clause 1. — (Administrative Provisions Relating to New Ministries.)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 9 December 1964.

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Photo of Mr Frederic Harris Mr Frederic Harris , Croydon North West 12:00, 9 December 1964

I am sure that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster realises the confusion and difficulty he has put the Committee in. I say with great respect to him that it is entirely of his own creation. The fact that he advised the Minister not to be present has made it impossible for us to get the facts we want. When I first heard of the creation of this Minister, with Cabinet rank, I was under the impression that it was being done because there was to be a considerable increase in overseas development expenditure. That, indeed, was the basis of manifestos and statements made by the party opposite during the election. But the right hon. Gentleman has held out no hope that this expenditure will be increased.

I am proud that my own party, last year, reached a record £175 million a year in overseas development expenditure. How important such expenditure is I know particularly from those countries I am interested in, in East Africa. Naturally, I wish the new Department every good fortune and my good will. Indeed, I extend my good wishes to the Minister in coping with her responsibilities. But will the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is the intention of the Government to live up to what they propose during the election, and increase overseas development? If that is their intention, to what extent will it be increased?

We must avoid uncertainty about the aid to be provided. This is a very important factor. Can the right hon. Gentleman say when such aid is to be decided upon? Will we know approximately the amount of aid the Minister will be able to dispense for a year ahead? What about the priorities? Obviously, we all have different views about priorities and which countries should have priorities. We should have clarification of this aspect.

Another very important point is the question of dispensing of this aid. It is common sense that it cannot be done just from Whitehall. It must be done by having people in those overseas countries with specific knowledge which enables them to say that this valuable aid, which is costly for this country, will be devoted to the best advantage of the peoples of all races in those countries. How is that to be done? I have not gathered from anything said by the right hon. Gentleman today that he can state quite clearly that the new Ministry will have overseas representatives to see these projects through.

I have the impression that the right hon. Gentleman does not know the answers to our questions. Frankly, I do not see how he can. He has the good will of most of us on all occasions, for he is very knowledgeable, but I do not see how he can have sufficient knowledge of these various subjects to be able to answer the important questions put to him this afternoon. My right hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham (Mr. R. Carr) asked some very pertinent questions and the right hon. Gentleman answered hardly one of them.

I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will give us more detailed answers. On the face of it, he does not have any information to his hand. Unless he gives us further information, he will leave the Committee disturbed and disappointed, because, although we want the Ministry of Overseas Development to get off to a good start, and to have even more financial resources to its elbow, we know nothing about how it is to be run.