Orders of the Day — Ecclesiastical Areas, London (Reorganisation)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 7 December 1964.

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Photo of Mr Robert Cooke Mr Robert Cooke , Bristol West 12:00, 7 December 1964

It is interesting to note that a substantial number of hon. Members are present to take part in or to listen to this debate, even at this late hour, and I am sure that the House is giving its usual thoroughness to this matter, which is important to quite a number of people.

I have received a certain amount of information about this problem and I have a few questions which I should like to ask my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir P. Agnew), who is to reply. In asking these questions, I should like to dissociate myself from some of the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member for Barking (Mr. Driberg) in introducing his query on this subject, because I felt that the hon. Member went a little beyond the actual problem in hand in "having a crack" at the Church commissioners, if I may use such a colloquial phrase, and adopted a somewhat partisan attitude, if that is possible in church matters.

I should like to ask my hon. and gallant Friend one or two questions. First, what safeguards are there for the priest who is now in charge of this church? What is his future likely to be? Is it in any way undermined by what is proposed? Secondly, I should like to know a little more about what will happen to this fine building. I read that it is in a somewhat dilapidated state, having been severely damaged during the war.

Is it envisaged, if the scheme goes through, that the condition of this fine piece of architecture will be improved? Will the building be restored to something like what it was when designed by Sir Christopher Wren? Will the interior be fitted out in such a way that it will still be a worthy place of worship? I read with some horror that there are to be offices, and so on, contained within the building and I should like to have assurances that they will not in any way detract from the appearance of the interior or in any way prevent its being used as a place of worship. If my hon. and gallant Friend can answer these two sets of questions, it will be a great help to the House.

Although what the building is actually used for is of considerable concern, the architectural considerations are important. There are people who believe that a church is a sacrament in stone which should not be willingly destroyed or dispensed with, and we hear that there was a threat that this building should be partially demolished. Will it emerge, as a result of this scheme, as a worthy architectural example? Can my hon. and gallant Friend say whether proper access will be available to any places of interest, or memorials of interest, in the interior? Will it be possible for research students, and so on, to be able to have access to anything which could conceivably be of interest in the interior at reasonable times of the day? If my hon. and gallant Friend can answer those questions satisfactorily the scheme would have my support.

Church Commissioners

Matters concerning the established Church of England are dealt with at Question Time by a parliamentary representative of the church commissioners.

The church commissioner's role is to answer any parliamentary questions relating to the Church of England in the same way that a government minister may face questions about a particular government department.

The Second Church Estates Commissioner is appointed by the crown and is traditionally a backbench member of the party in government. The appointment lasts for the duration of the Parliament.