Orders of the Day — Shipping Contracts and Commercial Documents Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 15 July 1964.

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Photo of Mr Cyril Bence Mr Cyril Bence , Dunbartonshire East 12:00, 15 July 1964

When the Bill was first printed, and I read it, I had difficulty in finding out how it would help to protect British shippers on the American routes. I read it many times and wondered how in the name of fortune it would do it.

During the course of my speech I shall give my interpretation of the Bill, and at the same time point out why I fail to grasp how it will be an effective instrument against the actions of the United States Government, and, indeed, of many other Governments to protect themselves against the high efficiency and high competitive power of British shipbuilding and British merchant fleets.

Like my right hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) I, too, am shocked that not more Members are taking part in the Second Reading of this important Measure. We are debating the actions of our competitors, not in the normal field of competition, but in cargo and passenger-carrying across the seas. We are debating action to combat the measures taken by other Powers to sustain their own economic activities because they have failed efficiently to compete with our merchant fleet.

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey (Mr. Mellish). I regret the reason for the Bill, because I consider that a close relationship and cooperation between the United States and Great Britain are essential in the present decade. It is unfortunate that two maritime Powers, the United States, and this country, with its great traditions, should reach a situation when we have to introduce niggling Measures like this to protect ourselves against the assumed unfair competition of the other.

I must, in all humility, admit that I fail to grasp the full meaning of the Bill. I have listened to the debate and I have read a good deal of professional material which has been handed to me. I am a professional in one field, but an amateur in all others. Knowing the mystiques which surround the professional, I am suspicious of the professional advice that I get. I examine it and apply my amateur instincts to interpreting it.

The Minister is laying on the shipping companies in this country a responsibility to provide information to the President of the Board of Trade, to a Secretary of State, and to the Minister of Transport. Such information is to be provided to all three, or to any one of them. The shipping company is to provide information of prohibitions or restrictions which its ships will encounter when they put into a particular port. It may be any port in the world, but as we are thinking particularly in terms of the United States because of the action which has been taken by the Federal Maritime Commission, perhaps I had better stick to the United States.

If a shipping company charters a ship to carry cargo from a shipper in this country to Newport, or Philadelphia, or New Orleans, or New York, and it is aware that certain documents will be demanded, it must provide the Government with information that it is aware that such a demand will be made. If it fails to provide that information to the Minister, it will be liable to a penalty of £1,000. My hon. Friend made the point that there may be a change of requirement from the time when the information is demanded and the ship arrives at the port. Such a change could be made in an order issued by the American Federal Maritime Commission.

The Bill says that if a shipping company fails to provide such information, and if one of its ships arrives in a foreign port and is asked for documents of the kind to which reference has been made, it will be liable to a fine of £1,000. That interpretation may be wrong, but that is how I see it. The shipping company can get the required information from reading American documents or by getting the information from the American consul. Such information would, therefore, be available to the Minister without him asking the shipper for it. Surely the Board of Trade, the Minister of Transport and the Secretary of State know what demands have been made by foreign Governments on British shippers without asking shipping companies here what they are.

When a British ship arrives in a foreign country a demand may be made for certain commercial documents, as set out in the Bill. I presume that this would be listed in an Order laid before this House. The documents having been demanded, the master may refuse to supply them on the ground that his information is that his company, under British legislation, has provided the appropriate Department of State with the appropriate information respecting these types of document. The master says that he has complied with British legislation.

I presume that the corresponding Departments of State in the United States, with their agencies over here, could get in touch with British Departments and could inquire, "Has this company given you appropriate information regarding the demands made by the Maritime Commission?"' and the Department here could say, "Yes". Who are the people now in conflict—the merchant shippers and the Maritime Commission in the United States, or the Maritime Commission and the British Government, who have provided that the shipper shall hand in certain information to Government Departments, although those Departments probably already have all the information and all the knowledge? Where does the conflict arise then? In case of difficulties the Maritime Commission might impose a fine.