New Clause No. 1. — (Preservation of Pension Rights.)

Part of Orders of the Day — Finance Bill – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 30 June 1964.

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Photo of Mr James Callaghan Mr James Callaghan Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, Member, Labour Party National Executive Committee 12:00, 30 June 1964

The hon. Gentleman must not probe into the direct relationship between my hon. Friend the Member for Sowerby (Mr. Houghton) and myself. I am not sure whether my hon. Friend would agree that I stepped out.

I believe that we must have a transferable system to enable people to carry their benefits from one occupation to another. That would make for a tremendous change in a number of aspects of the question, not all of which have been thoroughly explored. I think that is the next move which must be made and for that reason I hope that the Liberal Party will not press this Clause, realising that it was put down so as to provoke a discussion. In that respect, it has been successful.

We need more mobility in our industrial life and the way to get it is to ensure that benefits which have accrued to a person employed in one company or firm are transferred, and are transferable, to another company or firm. That could be done by legislative action and it would be the simplest way round the difficulty. Regarding the increased superannuation benefits that would accrue, I believe that here again the country is ready to pay for old age, provided that the contributions are raised equitably and based on the capacity of a person to pay.

Hon. Members on this side of the House reached the conclusion some time ago that the present poll tax has reached the maximum of its usefulness and must be replaced by a wage related superannuation scheme in which superannuation is paid for according to the level of a person's income. If we introduce this reform of carrying benefits throughout the whole of a person's working life and relating the payments to wages, it would be a bold step forward along lines which I think would have been agreeable to Lord Beveridge, and which he might have envisaged had he been thinking about the next step forward.

It is no disgrace to anyone to say that it was not done 20 years ago. The attitudes and minds of people change. I think that now we are ready for the next change and on those grounds I cannot support the Clause.