asked the Attorney-General (1) if he will include compulsory visits to open and closed prisons, Borstal institutions, approved schools and detention centres in the training scheme to be introduced for newly-appointed magistrates;

(2) if the compulsory training scheme for new juslices of the peace will include a refresher course for those magistrates already serving on the bench.

My noble and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor has appointed an Advisory Council to advise him with regard to the training of magistrates. It will be for the Council to consider what facilities for training should be provided for those magistrates who are already serving on the bench. Visits by newly-appointed magistrates to the institutions to which the hon. Member refers will obviously be among the matters which the Council will have to consider.

Would not the Attorney-General agree that he and his noble Friend in Another place could certainly bring before the Council the desirability of newly-created magistrates visiting places where they are likely to send offenders so that they at least have the practical knowledge of what open prisons, closed prisons and detention centres are like?

I have no doubt that this point has not escaped the notice of my noble Friend, nor will it escape the notice of the Advisory Council, but I will certainly draw the attention of my noble Friend to what the hon. Gentleman has said.

Mr. J. Wells:

I recognise the wisdom of training magistrates, but may I ask my right hon. and learned Friend to go very slow before there is any introduction of a procession of visitors to prisons and borstals? Although one has no desire to keep things secret, is he aware that it is very difficult for the staff of these institutions if there is an endless procession of half-interested and partly-interested individuals?

There are already voluntary schemes under which magistrates and others visit these institutions. They are useful, but I quite recognise that it does create problems for those who are running, and those who are incarcerated in, such institutions.

As a magistrate, may I ask my right hon. and learned Friend whether at the same time as these courses are arranged he will advise his right hon. Friend at the Home Office that magistrates' duties would be very much easier if remand homes, detention centres and proper courts for other things were provided, so that magistrates would know where they are when they are pronouncing sentences?

My experience is that magistrates usually do know where they are. I recognise that there may be the necessity for the provision of some remand centres, but that is entirely a question for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.