Like all hon. Members, I accept a great deal of the Denning Report, and especially Part IV. If I am rather more critical of some other parts of it I hope that that will not be taken to mean that I do not appreciate the job which Lord Denning has done, but I find myself in some disagreement with those who find this Report completely satisfactory.

The first point I turn to—the one on which Lord Denning does not throw much light—is the vital one—whether one can now draw an absolutely sharp distinction between inquiring into a man's private conduct and inquiring into matters affecting the defence of the realm. Paragraph 230 says: No one can understand the rôle of the Security Service in the Profumo affair unless he realises the cardinal principle that their operations are to be used for one purpose, and one purpose only, the Defence of the Realm. They are not to be used so as to pry into any man's private conduct, or business affairs: or even into his political opinions, except in so far as they are subversive… Lord Denning then refers to the fifth paragraph in Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe's directive.

That seems to be the crux of the matter; the matter which this House has to examine most carefully. It is a matter of extreme difficulty. I do not believe that the private conduct of the Secretary of State for War can be divorced from its possible effects on the security of the realm. I think that we are in a very difficult position as to how far we are entitled to inquire into people's private conduct if they hold public office, and that is a matter to which the House ought to address its attention.

I think that it was the right hon. Member for Woking (Mr. Watkinson)—who after all had great experience as a Minister of Defence—who said that we were engaged in a constant war of espionage and counter-espionage with the Communist countries, and that in this war every effort would be made to put people in a position in which they could be blackmailed. I therefore think that it is matter of great importance for this House to consider how far this clear distinction can any longer be valid, and if it is not valid, how far we are going to limit the severe consequences which might flow from accepting that security has to do with some aspect of some private lives when public figures are involved.

In point of fact, that is in another sense implicitly accepted in the Report, because Lord Denning says in paragraph 248 that had the security services been aware that Christine Keeler was having an affair with Mr. Profumo and Captain Ivanov, it was a matter which properly they ought to have reported to the Prime Minister. Lord Denning therefore accepts that certain private conduct was of a kind which would have involved the security services, and they should have reported it to the Prime Minister.

In fact, from the spring of 1961 the security services were aware that Stephen Ward might in certain circumstances be a risk. That appears in paragraph 243, and yet in spite of that they did not find out about Mr. Profumo, nor did this information reach the Prime Minister until too late. There is then, of course, the fact that the police were aware of possible dangers at least in January, 1963, and in paragraphs 80 to 85 Lord Denning is critical of the fact that no further investigations were made by the police.

There is one interesting point arising from paragraph 80. This paragraph recounts that the Marylebone Police took a statement from Christine Keeler. In that statement she alleges that she was asked to discover from Mr. Profumothe date on which certain atomic secrets were to be handed to West Germany by the Americans. That was at the time of the Cuban crisis.

Lord Denning is apparently convinced that Mr. Profumo broke off his association with Miss Keeler at the end of 1961. It was suggested in the last debate, in an Intervention by the hon. Member for Cheadle (Mr. Shepherd) that he had seen the parties together in October, 1962. I understand from a report in the Daily Telegraph that when he said that he did not intend to imply that Mr. Profumo was there, but apparently there were present Miss Keeler, Dr. Ward, and others, who were talking in some way, or doing something in Dr. Ward's flat, which led him to inform the security services. I think that there is no escaping from the fact that in these circumstances there was a very grave error on the part of the security services and that they should have informed their superiors, interviewed Miss Keeler, as Lord Denning suggests, and taken further steps to find out what was going on.

I gather that this may have in fact been the view of the right hon. Member for Bromley (Mr. H. Macmillan) because, in an intervention in my speech on 17th June, when I suggested that he had not seen the Secretary of State for War, he said: Up to the statement there was no question of security that is up to the Profumo statement— because if his statement was true his friendship with this woman had lasted for five weeks, 18 months before. Of course, now that we know what he said was untrue, then the security risk arises."—[Official Report, 17th June, 1963; Vol. 67, c. 81.] This clearly implies, and it is true, of course, that the personal conduct of Mr. Profumo had put him in the position in which he might become a security risk, if he had not become one, and was a proper matter for security investigation.

I would certainly agree that when the security services, either directly or in consultation with the C.I.D. make inquiries into what are normally private matters affecting private conduct but only become of public interest because of the office the man holds, they must clearly act with extreme discretion, and it is doubly important to know to whom they should report, because what action is taken on their report is the important point.

In this case, it appears from Lord Denning's Report, that the late Prime Minister's private secretary was informed about various matters and in paragraph 262 it is recorded that he actually said at that time that he would tell the Chief Whip and the Prime Minister". But this was not regarded, again, as a matter which involved calling for a report from the security services. Again, I think that this was an error of judgment, and I do not share Lord Denning's view that there should be no need for anxiety about the state of security.

The second point that I want to turn to is the conduct of the Ministers. The Prime Minister this afternoon referred to paragraphs 285 and 286. First, he said that Lord Denning's remarks in these paragraphs did not refer themselves to the interview which Mr. Profumo had with the Ministers immediately before his statement to the House of Commons. If I am wrong about this, I hope that the Prime Minister will correct me. But surely they do. If the Prime Minister will look at page 58, paragraph 181 A(5) he will find that Lord Denning repeats exactly the argument which is given in paragraphs 285 and 286, and that this is in the context of the interview between Ministers and Mr. Profumo. Admittedly it refers not only to that interview, but it was clearly in his mind, because sub-paragraph (6) of paragraph 181 refers to it.

Lord Denning's argument on the face of it, appears to be that the Minister should have inquired into the question not as to whether Mr. Profumo had in fact committed adultery with Miss Keeler, but whether reasonable people would believe that he had done so. I find some difficulty in knowing what Lord Denning means. In para 181 he uses the analogy of the civil law—I am no expert on this—but if the civil law of England really says that a wife is entitled to leave her husband if she believes that he has committed adultery with some one and goes on believing it even after it has been conclusively proved that he has not committed adultery, then, all I can say is that the law ought to be altered. I cannot think that he means that.

What I think Lord Denning is trying to say is that the Secretary of State for War should not have consorted with people like Dr. Ward and Miss Keeler. If it is argued that Miss Keeler was a different sort of girl when he knew her, that is contradicted by the report from the security services, because, even in January, 1961, she was "heavily painted and considerably overdressed". This is a valid point.

I agree that the Secretary of State for War has not only to be above suspicion but should also set an example and it becomes impossible to expect that people lower down in the Services will not put themselves in an embarrassing position if the Secretary of State for War himself is put in a position which gives rise to security risks. I think that that is the point that Lord Denning was trying to make, but that is not the point that he makes. What he seems to say is that it was irrelevant for particular inquiries to be made about the Minister whether adultery had been committed or not.

Ministers have to resign from time to time because through indiscretions they put themselves in a position in which their authority is damaged. But no one surely has ever suggested that a Minister ought to resign on grounds which are proved to be totally untrue. I would say, therefore, that Lord Denning again is evading the issue. Lord Denning should have said that the mere fact that Mr. Profumo was associating with Dr. Ward and Miss Keeler would in itself be ground for making it at least possible that he was not discharging his duty as Secretary of State for War. But, of course, this is a judgment on his private life. That is the point, but it has never been expressed, so far as I can see, in the Denning Report. To say, on the one hand, that we should not inquire into people's private lives, and to say again that people should not be forced out of public life because of rumours and innuendo, yet to say that it was of little importance for the Prime Minister to inquire whether or not adultery had taken place, is a very queer argument.

I share the doubt about the gullibility of the Ministers. They were certainly unduly gullible and I share also astonishment at the way in which personal statements to this House were drawn up, without the person who had to make the statement being present, and then shown to the Prime Minister who made a few drafting corrections, after which they are given to the House. This is most extraordinary procedure.

Finally, I want to refer to a suggestion made by the Prime Minister for the future. I had not heard of it before today and on the face of it I do not like it. To begin with I hold the view that the Executive ought to discharge its functions. I think that we have got into a good deal of trouble by trying to confuse this issue. Secondly, I do not think that a judge is a particularly good person to inquire into security, and if he is to be assisted by two ex-senior officers and two ex-senior civil servants. I have doubts about it. I doubt whether they are the people to probe into the efficiency of their own services, and it is quite possible that they will be out of touch with modern developments. I have some doubt, therefore, about the composition of the Tribunal, and I do not see why security cannot be treated as a matter for the different Departments concerned and the responsibility for it taken by the heads of the Departments and ultimately by the Prime Minister.

We must have this question of the Prime Minister's responsibility cleared up. I am certain that in the Profumo case the right hon. Member for Bromley (Mr. H. Macmillan) thought that he was responsible—and he was right. Again I refer to his interventions in my speech on 17th June. I said: The Prime Minister is head of security in this country. The then Prime Minister intervened, but he never denied this. I then repeated it. I said, he is head of security in this country. The Prime Minister again intervened and said: Up to the statement"— that is, the Profumo statement— there was no question of security."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 17th June, 1963; Vol. 679, c. 80–81.] He surely would have said, had he believed it, "I was not responsible." But he did not. He not only thought he was responsible; he must have been responsible, for breaches of security, or possible breaches of security—at least by members of the Government. There must be an ultimate responsibility resting with him. I suggest that the matter depends upon the degree of the offence and the status or rank of the person concerned.