Orders of the Day — Security (MR. Profumo's Resignation)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 17 June 1963.

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Photo of Mr Richard Glyn Mr Richard Glyn , North Dorset 12:00, 17 June 1963

I listened with great interest to the speech of the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg). He ended on a note which will be echoed by hon. Members on both sides of the House. He said that he could not believe that my right hon. Friend had been personally involved in any impropriety or disgraceful conduct of any kind.

Earlier the hon. Gentleman had been very frank about the information which he had obtained from time to time from Dr. Ward, and he told us that he had been informed by Dr. Ward that as far as he, Dr. Ward, was aware, there had been no impropriety between the late Secretary of State for War and Miss Keeler. This, I think, must have been the report, or been included in the report, which was mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in his Opening Speech, and this information must undoubtedly have played a part in enabling the late Secretary of State for War to convince so many experienced people that he was in fact not guilty of any impropriety during his association with Miss Keeler.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Flint, West (Mr. Birch) said that it was incredible that they should have believed the late Secretary of State for War on this point because, he said, Mr. Profumo was unlikely to be meeting what he described as a prostitute for social purposes. It is right to point out, however, that this comment is made with the full knowledge of hindsight. There were few people in the country and very few people in this House—and I believe that there was no one in the Government—who, on 22nd March of this year, were aware that Miss Keeler could have been properly described in this way. It is easy to apply the knowledge that we have now to the situation that obtained then, but it is not altogether just to condemn people because they did not know facts which were not then available to them.

A certain amount has been said by the hon. Member for Dudley and others about the fact that there is a three-line Whip on the Conservative side tonight. I want to make it clear that I am quite confident that I speak not only as the representative of the people of North Dorset but for the great Majority of the Tory Party throughout the country when I declare that if, at the end of this debate, I were left in any doubt whatever as to the integrity and honesty of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister at every stage of this affair, I should no longer be able to remain a member of a party of which he was the leader.

With regard to the Whip, I go further, and say that if, on the facts disclosed today, when properly considered in the light of the situation then obtaining, my right hon. Friend is shown to have been guilty of recklessness or even of negligence on an important matter of security, I, personally, would be quite unable to support the Government in the Lobby this evening. The decision of the House tonight—and it is a decision of great importance—must be based not on hindsight or on guesses about what may become known in the future but on the facts and evidence available to the Government at the relevant times and on the facts and evidence which are before the House today.

During the 12 days that have passed since the resignation of the late Secretary of State for War a series of sensational allegations have been published. Their cumulative effect has been to create more anxiety amongst the public than has been created in respect of any comparable episode in living memory. I agree that aspects of our security service are open to criticism, but I believe that what The Timesnewspaper describes as the moral issue is the more important one, and that it will be this issue, more than any point of security, which will finally determine the views of the majority of hon. Members at the conclusion of the debate.

This is a Supply day, and the precise terms of the debate are decided at the option of the Opposition. They chose the question of security, with special reference to the resignation of the Secretary of State for War. I say at once that I agree with the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition and other hon. Members when they say that there was a security risk throughout the period when Miss Keeler was entertaining both the Secretary of State for War and the Russian naval attaché. I do not attempt to disguise that fact.

The Leader of the Opposition said that there was a standing condition of security risk as long as the Secretary of State for War associated with Dr. Ward, Miss Keeler and Ivanov. He described this as a security quadrilateral. I do not complain of that description. Whether or not Miss Keeler was ever asked for secret information by her Russian lover does not matter; there was a security risk as long as these two men shared Miss Keeler's favours, and as long as Dr. Ward was closely involved in the matter. This makes it extremely important to ascertain when this security risk period began and ended.

One of the difficulties is that we must view with great care the statements which have been made by the parties concerned, and not readily believe them unless they are, to some extent at least, corroborated by outside evidence. Many of the parties have made more than one statement, and in some cases their statements have been rather conflicting. It seems clear, however, that the security period began in July, 1961. That seems to be well established. The parties met at a party at Cliveden.

This has been the subject of a number of articles in the Press, thoroughly described and reasonably well authenticated. It is less easy to be sure, however, of the precise date at which this quadrilateral broke up. First, we had the date of December, 1961, given for the ending of the association between Miss Keeler and the late Secretary of State for War. I have noticed, however, that there has been one suggestion that it lasted longer. I shall deal with that point in a minute.

It is interesting to note that the former Secretary of State for War had been warned against Dr. Ward. This has been agreed by hon. Members on both sides of the House. Because of this it is interesting to know what Miss Keeler said, as published very fully in the News of theWorld on the 9th of this month. According to her she was staying in Dr. Ward's flat when her association with the former Secretary of State for War broke up. She said, He wanted me to leave Ward's flat. I would not go. He said he would not see me if I did not leave. I told him he must make his choice. She then said that she got out of the car and slammed the door, and added that she never met him again.

We know from evidence given in the Old Bailey in another case that Miss Keeler left Dr. Ward's flat comparatively early in 1962 and went to live in Isle-worth, with a Mr. Edgecombe, who was involved in the case in December, 1962, when she had left him and was sharing a flat with a Miss Rice-Davies, outside the door of which he discharged a revolver. If Miss Keeler is correct in saying that this association stopped while she was still in Dr. Ward's flat it is clear that it stopped either at the end of 1961 or very early in 1962.

This has been accepted by a number of newspapers. In its leading article yesterday the Observer particularly referred to the association between these two as being of only a few months' duration. If that is correct, the quadrilateral had a short existence, from July until December, 1961, when it appears that the first one broke away.

It has been said—there are conflicting stories about this—that Miss Keeler was asked to get information from the late Secretary of State for War in December, 1962, at the time of the Cuban crisis. The fact that she was so asked would not absolutely prove that she was still seeing the late Secretary of State for War, but if that story be true it entirely conflicts with her statement that she never saw him again after the time when she slammed the car door outside Dr. Ward's flat, and when she refused to leave that flat. This is a matter upon which every hon. Member must form his own conclusion.

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