The hon Member for Dunbartonshire, East (Mr. Bence) did not need to apologise for the fact that he has rarely contributed to foreign affairs debates. Speaking for myself, I hope that he will take part in them very frequently. I hope that he will not find my compliment embarrassing, because I found practically little or nothing in his speech with which I could disagree.

I was particularly touched by his references to Berlin. I, too, have seen the same things and felt the same things. There is an even worse feature about the church he mentioned. The graveyard is over the Wall to the east, and permission has even been refused for bereaved western relatives to put flowers on the graves. They have to throw them over, weighted with stones, in the hope that they will land near the grave. For that to take place in a so-called civilised community must fill everyone with a sense of burning shame.

One advantage of speaking late in a debate is that practically everything has already been said, and among all the reasons that have been given for what Russia did, and what America did, and what Russia did after America did what she did, at least one reason must be right, because we have covered practically every contingency. I shall content myself by sharing in the disgust already expressed by the two previous speakers at some of the banner-waving in the last few critical days. For those who in the past have spent a lot of time making a pretty good nuisance of themselves in the country protesting, understandably enough, against the spread of nuclear weapons throughout the world, to go round waving banners in support of a policy that would, in fact, have led to a spread of those same nuclear weapons seems to be not only illogical but nauseatingly hyprocritical.

On the question whether we should or should not express satisfaction at the outcome of the Cuban affair, I am one of those who agree that it would be very dangerous to crow over the Russians for having given way as they did. I think that it would also be remarkably foolish to do so because I do not think we have so much to crow about. The net result is that the Russians may well say to themselves that half a satellite is better than none at all. If they had not acted as they did and drawn back, it could be that by now the United States would have landed in military force and that Cuba would have gone altogether from the Communist camp. Therefore, while patting ourselves on the back do not let us be too self-satisfied, for quite apart from the fact that it would be dangerous to provoke Russian reaction by gloating, I do not think we have so much to gloat about. In any case, I do not think we are out of the wood yet in Cuba, and premature satisfaction at this stage may indeed be very premature.

My principal reason for speaking this evening has nothing to do with the Cuban crisis but with what is going on in India. I have had the good fortune during the last fortnight to make a tour of West and East Pakistan from which I returned only about forty-eight hours ago. Many of the crises that we have heard about were taking place not far from those places which I visited.

Perhaps I may make one last remark about Cuba at this point. When the news about Cuba broke, it was interesting to find so few people in Pakistan who thought that the situation would develop into a shooting war. In some ways they were more logical than some of the more scarey or hysterical people in this country. The few Pakistanis with whom I spoke refused to believe that any sane man—and I have never heard Khrushchev described as other than sane—would have a major war over such a comparatively unimportant territory to Russia as Cuba is. If it was a question of the Americans staging a counterrevolution in Hungary and installing rocket bases facing Moscow it would have been a different picture indeed. In the circumstances, I think that some of the extravagant talk today about awakening from a hideous nightmare has been a little overdone.

I wanted to speak mainly on the India-China question. I was delighted to hear that Her Majesty's Government, together with other Western countries, are going to do everything possible to help Indian resistance to Chinese aggression. I emphasise this point because of one or two more critical remarks that I shall make later in my speech. I am also glad to realise that India has now carried out what has become almost a stock phrase in diplomatic language—an agonising reappraisal of her position in the world. But I do not believe for a moment that it would be wise for us to express pleasure at the fact that India has found neutrality not so successful as she thought it would be. I have never agreed with India's neutrality policy in the world; nevertheless, she is a sovereign country and she had every right to try out theories of neutrality if that was what she thought was best for her and the world. Now that this agonising reappraisal has taken place, it would not be right for anyone, either in Asia or here to adopt an attitude of "I told you so."

I have said that I am glad that we are going to take all possible steps to assist India in the difficulties to which she is now exposed, but I must say that if good is to come out of this evil, as we hope that good may come out of the evil of the Cuban affair, there must be some other aspects of thought and reappraisal in India herself. She has been referred to by our Foreign Secretary as a great peace-loving country, but I must tell hon. Members that, coming from Pakistan and having been to other parts of Asia where India influence is felt, this is not a view which is universally held there today. I am not talking about hotheads in Pakistan or elsewhere, but there are fairly wide apprehensions throughout Southern Asia about Indian expansionist policies. It would not be right to disguise these from the House. They are not ones that I necessarily hold, but I assure hon. Members that they are widely held among India's neighbours.

We must remember that Pakistan, rightly or wrongly—and in due course self-determination will be able to tell us this—believes that Kashmir belongs to them. Be that as it may, the great nation of India, which is lauded throughout much of the world as being peace-loving, keeps four-fifths of its Army on the borders or inside the area of Kashmir in continued defiance of no less than twelve resolutions of the United Nations seeking a solution there by self-determination. This is a fact.

Only recently the King of Nepal complained that Indian subversion from outside his borders was being constantly directed to bring down his Government, and similar fears have been expressed in the two small Kingdoms to which reference has been made today, Sikkim and Bhutan. I must remind hon. Members that it is not so long ago that both sides of the House, whatever excuses we may find on moral grounds, condemned India for taking unilateral military action against Goa. On that occasion, although there was understanding on both sides of the House as to why this had happened, there was general agreement that this was contrary to the United Nations Charter and international law.

At the time of Suez, although obviously I disagreed with his policies and with those of the party opposite, I was very struck by one observation of the Leader of the Opposition in warning Britain of the possible outcome that might flow from our continued efforts in Suez. He said that if we left the field of international law and went into the jungle we must expect to meet bigger animals than ourselves. One must hope that there is a realisation in India today that, whether it is against the Nagas or against Goa or whether it is in exerting pressure against Kashmir, India, if she seeks equity, must also practise equity, not only in the eyes of this House but in the eyes of her neighbours.

Therefore, I say again that, just as we hope that some good will come out of the Cuban crisis, because we must pray that the idea of United Nations supervision and verification will be more widely accepted, I hope that India, in the unhappy phase through which she is passing, will realise that this is now a great opportunity for her to adopt a rather different attitude towards her neighbours in Asia. In other words, she should seek the leadership of Asia as the asserted greatest democratic nation there by convincing her neighbours of her good faith and not by resorting to measures which have not earned her the praise or confidence of her neighbours.

I am hopeful that the Government of Pakistan will react favourably to the suggestion that there should be a joint lessening of tension between India and Pakistan so as to free more Indian resources for the defence of her frontiers. I am glad that the President of the United States and our own Prime Minister have lent their weight to this aim. But in the ultimate resort it will not be pressures from outside which will make Pakistan join India in a really wholehearted and concerted line of defence. That can come about only when there is mutual confidence between the two countries. The whole blame in this hideous struggle between the two countries since independence should not of course be put at India's door. Although I have a particular friendship in Pakistan, I should never suggest that there have not been faults on both sides. But at this time, as the Power with the main responsibility for the tension, the main gesture must come from India if she is to gain the confidence of her neighbour. Pakistan for her part should react immediately to any such real gesture because, even though there may be a temptation to feel separated from what India is having to endure, Pakistan may one day wake up to find a similar threat on her borders.

During my tour I had the good fortune to go right through the Khyber Pass, one of the most thrilling experiences of my life. It was all that one reads about in Kipling and elsewhere. But there was a grim overtone to the tour. I went right up to the Afghan frontier, very close to what is referred to as the centre of the world because there is for a short distance a border which touches Pakistan, India, Russia, China, and Afghanistan all in one corner. The Afghan guards on the other side who used to look very shoddy and untidy compared with the crack Pakistani Khyber Rifles had gone, and in their place were very smartly dressed and well-trained soldiers dressed in Russian-type uniforms.

There is constantly blaring forth from that frontier Communisit-dominated propaganda aimed against Pakistan and at trying to disaffiliate Pathan tribes which live on the Pakistani side of the border. Let Pakistan recall at this moment that she too may well have her dangers to face in future and that her interests lie An a common defence policy with India, if this can be achieved. In the happy event of the Indian subcontinent being a much firmer and better bastion of democracy in the world than it is today, it will be because India is prepared to make the necessary gestures to convince her neighbours of her sincerity, and to show that she is not making them because she is in difficulties but because, even at this late stage, she is ready to realise that only by genuine co-operation with her neighbours can her own future safety be assured.