Foreign Affairs

Part of Orders of the Day — Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 31 July 1961.

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Photo of Mr Joseph Godber Mr Joseph Godber , Grantham 12:00, 31 July 1961

I would not say that they have been ignored, but by their law, the Portuguese are not compelled to bring a person up before a court within the time that Dr. Scott has been kept in custody. They are operating under their laws. We made approaches, but there are limits to what we can do in this regard. As I have said, we made representations, and we have repeated them, about the conditions in which Dr. Scott has been detained.

I was also asked questions about the position of Bizerta. I can inform the House that the Security Council met on Friday and Saturday, but it adjourned without adopting a resolution. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Belper was under the impression that a request had been made convening a special meeting of the General Assembly. My information is that no formal request has so far been made, but it is clear that a number of Member States are anxious to convene one. If a majority of the Member States do so, then it will take place and, if it does, we shall participate.

We have very little to add to the views which we have already expressed at the Security Council. The Council is seized of the matter, and while we recognise that some Member States may wish to have a General Assembly, we hope that if this takes place the debate will concentrate on the first essential, which is to bring the parties together. We believe that the important thing is whether any proposal is calculated to advance a solution and to facilitate negotiations or to retard them.

I now turn to a matter which was particularly raised by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Belper, who was critical of my right hon. Friend for not dealing with it. My right hon. Friend dealt with a great many subjects and it is unreasonable to have expected him to cover every item. In any case, it had been arranged that I should deal with other points. I refer to the question of the Geneva Nuclear Tests Conference.

I regret that, despite our unremitting efforts, I cannot tell the House of any progress towards agreement on a treaty banning nuclear tests. From the Western side we have attempted to build a bridge across the gap which separates our position from that of the Soviet Government. But I am sorry to say that the Soviet Government have not only failed to join with us, but during recent months have actually widened that gap. When so much progress has been made, it is bitterly disappointing to find that the Russians now wish to draw back. Having agreed in 1958 on the details of a control system, the Soviet Union now equates control with espionage.

Any reasonable person who reads our draft Treaty can see that it contains every possible safeguard against abuse of control measures for espionage. As regards the administration of the control system, we thought we had met the Soviet Government's wishes by agreeing to equal representation of Western and Communist States on the Control Commission, but now we are faced with the Soviet "troika" proposal in the actual administration which, if we accepted it, would mean that the conflict of ideologies would be introduced into the control system itself.

In spite of these set-backs, we have not abandoned our efforts to reach agreement on a nuclear tests treaty. Such a treaty would be the first step on the long road towards a disarmed world living under the rule of law; and we think that it would be a vitally important step.

That is why we continue to hope that the Soviet Government will revert to serious and constructive negotiations at Geneva. It is also our reason for having placed on the Agenda of the United Nations General Assembly the question of nuclear tests. I was, of course, glad to hear on several occasions from hon. Gentlemen opposite the view that if only the Soviet Government would help us in achieving this agreement it would do much in the disarmament field as well. I believe that there is unanimity in the House on this.

Our view—I am sure that it is shared on both sides of the House—was set out in the declaration made by the Common- wealth Prime Ministers after their meeting in London last March. We are most anxious to make progress for renewed negotiations on the basis of the aims and principles set out in that declaration. I remind the House that in the discussions during the last General Assembly, it was agreed that to facilitate progress in disarmament, there should be discussions between the Americans and the Russians this year in the hope of finding an agreed basis for the resumption of multilateral negotiations. It was further agreed that meanwhile, the various resolution relating to disarmament should be held over for the next session of the General Assembly, which is due to begin on 19th September, to which progress on the discussions between those two Governments would be repeated.

A first stage of those discussions took place in Washington in June. Further discussions in Moscow have been going on for the past fortnight. Mr. McCloy, who has been conducting them on the American side, has now returned to Washington to report to the President. We hope that those discussions can be resumed in the United States after a short interval. We have been in the closest possible touch with the Americans throughout and we are in full accord with the attitude they have taken.

It is premature to say what the outcome will be, but I earnestly hope that some basis will emerge on which full multilateral discussion can be resumed. We, for our part, would lose no opportunity to promote the early tabling of proposals to this end, whether in the General Assembly or in any other forum in which progress is likely to be made. There has been reference today to various forums—for example, the Disarmament Commission and the ten-Power disarmament discussions at Geneva. Whatever the forum, we are willing to obtain those discussions and to make progress if we can.

One aspect which has been only touched upon in the debate but which is extremely important is the question of the "troika", which is a serious one and is probably not sufficiently considered in the world. In the past year, although we have had a number of discouraging developments in the international field, this is probably essentially the most harmful to international co-operation which has come forward. It was first introduced in a speech by Mr. Khrushchev at the last session of the General Assembly. Since then, we have seen how it has been a material factor in frustrating progress at the nuclear tests conference, while in further speeches Mr. Khrushchev has made it plain that he wishes to adopt this concept in all international negotiations.

The original proposal was that the Secretary-General of the United Nations should be replaced by a triumvirate representing the three blocs into which, the Russians claim, the world is divided and that this triple structure should be reproduced throughout the United Nations and its Agencies. Under this arrangement, decisions or action would require the concurrence of all three and could, therefore, be vetoed by any one.

Behind this doctrine are two basic assumptions, each of which, in my view, is completely and utterly wrong. The first is that no one person can hope to be neutral in any international matter and that everybody is bound to show bias to one side or the other. The second is that the world is to day split into three roughly equal camps—the Communist States, the Western alliance and the uncommitted neutral States.

The first assertion—that no man can be neutral—violates the essential principles on which the United Nations is based and it casts a slur not only on Mr. Hammarskjöld himself, who has served, and is serving, the United Nations loyally and impartially, but also on the whole team of the Secretariat and its subsidiary bodies. There is no hope whatever for the future of the United Nations if we envisage it as a body staffed by people whose object is to serve their own national interest alone and to see that they neutralise or, indeed, obstruct any action taken or proposed by their colleagues drawn from some other faction or bloc.

As for the concept of these three-Power groupings in the world, it is a gross distortion of fact to pretend that the neutral or the unaligned States act or think as one cohesive unit. They themselves utterly reject this unreal concept. It is clear that they have no desire or intention to be regimented into any bloc.

This proposal of the Troika is reactionary, narrowly nationalistic in outlook and entirely at variance with the spirit which should activate member States of the United Nations. Unhappily, we have had to face the fact that since the inception of the United Nations, Soviet Russia has too often sabotaged the work of that body in its efforts to promote a world order of international peace and justice. Her vicious use of the veto has brought to nothing many genuine efforts to resolve problems affecting peace. The most recent example in the minds of hon. Members will be her veto of our resolution on Kuwait a week or two ago. It is worth noting that in the 966 meetings of the Security Council up to date Russia has used her veto on 95 occasions, almost 10 per cent. of the total. During that period the United States has never used a veto, the United Kingdom only twice.

These are harsh facts that we have come to live with, but this latest proposal of the Troika is something which is much more far-raching and evil in its possible effects. It is our duty to expose it for the wrecking device it is, to lead others to reject it and urge the Russians to drop it. Only by so doing can we hope to assist forward the United Nations in the very difficult tasks that lie ahead of them.