Public Schools (Entry)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 16 June 1961.

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Photo of Mr William Yates Mr William Yates , The Wrekin 12:00, 16 June 1961

I am very glad that this debate was initiated by my hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft (Mr. Prior) who delivered a very valuable speech. I only regret that I was absent during part of it. I had to see the Ambassador for the Lebanon.

I find it most extraordinary that the most modern approach to social affairs today is coming more and more from the younger Members of the benches on this side of the House and less from hon. Members on the benches opposite. As for the Liberal Party, with its great past and its future, its Members are not even represented here on a day on which we are discussing probably the most fundamental social reforms which the country could undertake. I have no doubt that they are busy elsewhere.

It is the custom of the House, of course, when an hon. Member speaks for him to declare his interest. I am a voluntary governor of Christ's Hospital, a responsibility which I do not often exercise. I also had the fortune to be educated at a very pleasant school called Uppingham in the Midlands, which was a very enjoyable experience.

Having said that, I wonder, having listened to the speeches which have been made, what we can best contribute to the debate and how best we can assist the Minister and even the country when we come to consider the problem of the selection of certain people in the community to go to these public schools.

Several hon. Members seem to think that the lists for entry into public schools are going to decrease. The hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras, South (Mr. G. Johnson Smith) thought that. I should say that he was wrong. I can tell the House from my visits to the Middle East and other parts of the world that there are parents in those parts who are very anxious to get their children into public schools in this country. People in the emerging new countries and countries coming to independence in the Middle East and Africa deplore the fact that they cannot get sufficient teachers and sufficient public schools of the same standard as those in this country. I should say that there is a great underestimation on the part of the hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras, South when he suggests that the public schools system in this country and all that it stands for, with all the valuable assets which it makes available to society, is going to subside. I am certain that the reverse will be the case.

One is able also, to watch with interest the experiments of one's own local authority. We heard a very valuable speech from the hon. Member who spoke about the Middlesex County Council. I certainly think that the experiments conducted by the Shropshire County Council are just as valuable. For example, I think that where a local authority sets up its own boarding schools, as in Millinship, in my own constituency, that is a very valuable experiment. The hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras, South complained that one sort of boy would be kept out and another in. Why does not the boarding school sponsored by a local authority allow fee-paying parents to send their children there.

When we look at our educational system we see that there are two sharp differences which are no good for the country and for society, and the House must try to encourage the Minister to do what he can Ito take as his basis the Fleming Report and to find methods by which children from poorer homes can go to public schools.

This is an essential part of our social philosophy and policy. I as a radical member of the Conservative Party fundamentally believe that it is the duty of that party to see that this is done. I hope that hon. Members will not just accept a very polite and pleasant speech from the Minister, of the kind we always get from him, but will insist that further progress is made in these matters.

The hon. Member for Widnes (Mr. MacColl) rather pooh-poohed the idea that one local school in his area was aping some of the public schools' ideas in its educational system. He thought that the visit made by the public school boys was not of very much value. I do not know about that. Perhaps one such visit would not be particularly valuable. One school in my constituency, of which Sir John Hunt is a patron, runs itself like a government. It has ministers for running various departments in the school. Vast experiments are going on there. A phenomenal thing that happened this year was that that secondary modern school received from the Duke of Edinburgh seven gold awards. That is truly a phenomenal thing to happen in one secondary modern school. That school is putting into practice the valuable principles learned in the greatest public schools in this country.

I mention this matter only because it shows to some extent how valuable the assets of public schools if applied to State education can be. That, however, does not get over the final point, that we ought to see what can be done to integrate the two systems.

This country is in such a position that it cannot afford to squander any talent. We are now facing a world quite different from that which the public schools system was set up to face. The public schools system, with its particular pattern of thinking, was set up to prepare people for the administration of overseas territories and in the spirit of Empire and Commonwealth. It was set up in the pattern of thinking for the Services, the Royal Navy, the Army and, eventually, the Royal Air Force.

The public schools themselves as well as the country recognise that that pattern of thinking does not now produce the type of people required for leadership in a highly technical and specialised world. I think that the public schools are right now in offering new opportunities to the State system.

My hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft has rendered an extremely valuable service to this House and to the country by initiating this debate, and, as a fellow back-bencher, I shall support him in his endeavours to see that equality of opportunity means something in this country. Hon. Members on the back benches on this side of the House must support him to the best of their ability.