Orders of the Day — LIFE PEERAGES BILL [Lords]

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 12 February 1958.

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Photo of Mr Clement Davies Mr Clement Davies , Montgomeryshire 12:00, 12 February 1958

I agree with the hon. Lady the Member for Aberdeen, South (Lady Tweedsmuir) that it would be wholly desirable to have a further conference to consider what other steps are needed for the reform of the House of Lords. While the hon. Lady feels the necessity for further reform, I think she supports the Bill and finds some virtue in it. Speaking for myself, I can find no virtue in it; I think it is a pretence. While pretending to bring in a reform of the second Chamber, all it proposes to do is to add an unknown number of men and women to the already extraordinary number of hereditary peers. I believe that the number of hereditary peers today is 875. I listened carefully to what the Leader of the House had to say about the numbers of life peers that may be created. He said there should be no limit; but I gather there is no intention whatsoever of creating a number equal to, still less exceeding, the number of hereditary peers existing today.

So in truth and in fact the power will still remain with the hereditary peers. So far as I can see, the real purpose of the Bill, to use a phrase employed by the Leader of the Opposition, is, while making the House of Lords look a little more respectable than it does today as a second Chamber, to bolster up some kind of case for maintaining the hereditary principle as a qualification for membership.

It is said that Bill will bring about some very much needed changes. Let us consider what those are. I think it is admitted that a second Chamber should have, if not parity, something approaching parity, and that it would work very much better if the parties were somewhat equally divided. But for generations the overwhelming majority in the House of Lords has been Conservative, and it is proposed to maintain that position. The overwhelming majority in the second Chamber have belonged to the Conservative Party and have exercised their power even though the Conservative Party has been in a minority both in this House and in the country. So far as one can see, that situation will still be maintained when the Bill becomes law and new life peers are created. The Bill will not in any way affect the present position, that of there being an overwhelming majority maintained by one party over the other.

The Leader of the House said that it is necessary to inject new blood to enable the House of Lords to discharge its duties, the implication being that today it does not fully discharge its duties as it should do. Therefore, it is considered necessary that the House should be strengthened by admitting men and women who today are not prepared to undertake the burden of a hereditary peerage, persons of distinction in professions, in industry, in education, in public service or in public experience, and that will strengthen the second Chamber in so far as there will be better advice and better guidance. To whom will that better advice and better guidance be addressed? Not to men and women of similar calibre but to those who, apparently, in the words of the Leader of the House, are not able today to discharge duties which are required of a second Chamber. Even if they listen to the advice which is tendered to them or the guidance which is suggested to them, they need not nay any attention to it but can reject it overwhelmingly.

There was a third point to which the Leader of the Opposition referred. We all realise the tremendous burden which is today being put upon the Labour Opposition in the House of Lords. It is suggested that its position will be eased and that more persons can be induced to undertake the burden of attending and taking part in debates in the second Chamber if they are offered a life peerage as against a hereditary peerage. What is the inducement to all these people, whether the peerage is being offered to them on political grounds or whether their qualification is that they have obtained distinction in a profession, industry or public service? What inducement is there for them to devote the time required to undertake duties in another place when all they get are their bare expenses, just £3 a day? Can one imagine any member of the Labour Party, whom we will assume to be a working man, giving up what he is earning today —because he cannot possibly carry on his work and be ready to take up a life peer- age—for a remuneration of £3 a day to meet his expenses?

The whole thing is absurd. As I have said, the reason underlying all this is the maintenance of the hereditary principle as a qualification for membership, whereas in truth and fact the hereditary principle today is a complete anachronism. In a debate in another place last Session before the introduction of the Bill, Lord Home said that it is difficult to justify in theory or in logic a Parliamentary system which includes the hereditary principle. It will be noticed that he did not say "which is based upon the hereditary principle." Yet it is proposed—that is the whole object of the Bill—to continue the hereditary principle and to make it a qualification for membership of the House of Lords. I do not see that it can be justified in any way to an enlightened people, all of whom today, if they are over 21, are in a position to choose whom they would wish to represent them in the House of Commons.

Some in the other place found it possible not only to favour the Bill but to vote for it, and they did so because for the first time it is proposed to admit women and life peers. What in the name of reason would they think it was possible to do about reforming the House of Lords unless one created life peers and admitted women or had an elected Chamber? It seemed to me that all that they saw in this was a necessity, and that they turned that necessity into a virtue.

The Parliament of Britain has always claimed the proud position of being the Mother of Parliaments. I think one can claim a prouder position for it. For generations now it has been the pattern of Parliaments, and I think it should still be the pattern of Parliaments. Yet in no other country in the world is the hereditary qualification admitted as entitling anyone to membership of a Parliament. I would particularly emphasise that point at this moment, for democracy as we understand it is today on trial for its very life. It has been threatened by another system which would overwhelm it. How can it possibly be suggested that democracy as we have preached it and taught it to the rest of the world can be defended by persons whose only qualification is that they are sons of peers of another generation? In those circumstances it is a farce and an impossibility to put up the case that one would otherwise put up against those who would challenge the very position of this House.

Of course the House of Lords needs reform. That is admitted by everyone. But if we are to reform it, let it be a true reform and not the mere sham that this Bill is. I believe now that a second Chamber has some value, but I will admit at once that I thought otherwise in those early days when one witnessed the debates that took place in this House. The majority elected in 1906 was bigger than any majority returned for any party since 1832—a majority not even exceeded by that of the Labour Party's majority in 1945. This House spent week after week upon a Bill which was then sent to another place, only to find that even if that Bill was kept alive it was mauled out of all recognition. In two cases this House spent weeks and weeks on Bills, but they were voted out without debate in another place.

I agree that, in those days, when asked whether the House of Lords should be mended or ended, I as a young man said "end it". But it may be that one sees usefulness in it today, so I have changed my mind in that regard, but if we are to reform it and continue to have a second Chamber, let is be a second Chamber that will command respect and confidence and one in which one knows that the men and women in it are there because they deserve to be and not merely by accident. How can one respect the present second Chamber or defend it to other countries when we have to admit that today over half of the present 875 members have not even set foot inside the building? What justification can there be for continuing such a system?

I would remind hon. Members that this House has been responsible for the creation of several Parliaments throughout the Commonwealth. In not one of them was it ever suggested that the example of the House of Lords and its hereditary system should be followed. What I should really like now to ask the House is: Why have the Conservative Party and the Government abandoned the principles to which they agreed in April, 1948? It is right that the House should have its attention directed to that. I had the privilege of attending the whole of that conference. The representatives of the Conservative Party at that time were Sir Anthony Eden and, if he were absent, Mr. Oliver Stanley; the Marquess of Salisbury, Viscount Swinton and the present Lord Chancellor. I do not think anyone would suggest that they were the left wing of the Conservative Party, if such a thing as a left wing there be.

The discussion did not take long. It was amazing how quickly agreement was reached. There were two matters to be discussed—the composition of the reformed House of Lords and its powers. Even with regard to the powers we were in complete agreement, except on the one point of the extent of the power of delay. Ultimately, the discussions broke down on a question of a mere three months, but there was complete agreement that the hereditary system should go once for all.

Here it is just as well that one should recall paragraph 5 of Cmd. 7380 of 1948. It reads: Proposals relating to reform of the Composition of the House of Lords were discussed first. If it had been possible to achieve general agreement over the whole field of Powers and Composition, the Party representatives would have been prepared to give the following proposals further consideration, so as to see whether the necessary details could be worked out, and, if so, to submit them, as part of such an agreement, to their respective Parties. The proposals are then set out as follows: (1) The Second Chamber should be complementary to"— everybody agrees that today, even in another place: and not a rival to the Lower House, and, with this end in view, the reform of the House of Lords should be based on a modification of its existing constitution as opposed to the establishment of a Second Chamber of a completely new type based on some system of election. We agree that if it were elected it might challenge this Chamber, claiming equal rights because it had been elected just as this one is.

The second proposal reads: The revised constitution of the House of Lords should be such as to secure as far as practicable that a permanent majority is not assured for any one political Party. What is the position in regard to that today? It is proposed to create a few life peers, something that will not in the slightest degree affect the overwhelming Conservative majority in another place.

The third proposal is: The present right to attend and vote based solely on heredity should not by itself constitute a qualification for admission to a reformed Second Chamber. The Marquess of Salisbury, Viscount Swinton, Sir Anthony Eden, Mr. Oliver Stanley and Lord Kilmuir all agreed—