Clause 1. — (Introduction of New Housing Subsidies.)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 25 January 1956.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr Sidney Dye Mr Sidney Dye , South West Norfolk 12:00, 25 January 1956

My hon. Friend the Member for Clapham (Mr. Gibson) has appealed to the Minister to give consideration to this particular aspect of the housing problem. That appeal has not been made from a party point of view. It is true that it is from this side that the Amendment is put forward, but I should have thought that it would have commended itself to all hon. Members.

What we are asking for is that the present rate of subsidy should, in the case of the first Amendment, be continued for any kind of accommodation that is specially provided for aged or disabled persons. In the second Amendment we are asking that the Minister should continue the present rate of subsidy for those schemes, such as are now being prepared in Norfolk, of aged persons' dwellings grouped around a warden's house, the warden living in the midst of the aged persons who occupy the dwellings and who are in need of minor supervision.

I listened to the right hon. Gentleman's Second Reading speech, and I have since read it. It seems to me that the grounds that he gave for introducing the Bill—namely, that there are some people living in council houses whose incomes do not warrant a subsidy of this kind being paid—do not apply to the Amendments which we are now discussing. Here we have people who, because of their age and infirmity, are in special need, and we are asking that the Minister shall give consideration to their case. We can appeal both to his heart and to his head—to his heart because it should stir anyone's heart to see provided grouped dwellings specially designed for old retired people who are no longer earning an income.

The question of the incomes of these people being out of proportion to the subsidy that the local authority will receive for providing those dwellings does not enter into the case at all; neither does the question of the more economic management of the local authorities housing estates. Here we have a straightforward question whether these local authorities should continue to build specially designed dwellings for old people and receive a subsidy at last year's current rate. If they can do that, there is every likelihood that they will go on doing so, to the advantage of our growing population of aged persons.

It is not a question of wanting to segregate aged persons in a special building or group. It is a question of the greater convenience of supervision and assistance for them, and the provision of those amenities which will assist them. Therefore, I should have thought that it would be a sound proposition for the Government to continue the present rate of subsidy as being the cheaper method of looking after these aged persons.

I hope that it will not be out of order if I refer to a statement made from the Government Front Bench this afternoon after Questions, in which the Minister of Health, speaking about the Guillebaud Report on the Health Service, mentioned the recommendation that in future the Ministry should give a grant of 50 per cent. for accommodation specially provided in county homes and hostels for aged persons. I do not want the day to come when all our aged people are gathered together in hostels or homes. It would be much better for them and much more in accordance with their desires if they could live as long as possible on their own, in their own homes, and it would be much cheaper for the community.

It would be better to continue the existing rate of subsidy to enable local authorities to build the bungalows or other suitably designed buildings so that the aged might continue to live in them, rather than to go ahead with the provision of large homes. That kind of accommodation is all right for people who need constant supervision day and night.

As the right hon. Gentleman will know, we have in Norfolk some of the best hostels of that character which have been provided since the end of the war. As the chairman of the welfare committee which has played a great part in providing these hostels, I know how they are appreciated, but we want this other development to continue. We have a scheme whereby the local housing authority is encouraged to provide suitable accommodation in grouped bungalows, with a house for a resident warden, and the county council makes an annual contribution to cover the cost of the warden's accommodation and such services as that warden renders to the people in the group. If this Bill is passed in its present form, it seems to me that that development will be stopped, and I am sure that would be wrong from the humanitarian and financial points of view.

Let me take the cost of building bungalows. My own district council, the Swaffham Rural District Council, is building bungalows suitable for old people, the one-bedroom bungalows costing £900 apiece and the two-bedroom bungalows costing £1,050 apiece. But when we have to build a large home to accommodate 30 or 40 old people and equip it, the capital cost per person is greater and the staff is so much greater. Therefore, the annual cost is much higher.

Many of these bungalows are now let at a rent of 8s., 9s. or 10s. a week, and the old-age pensioners can afford that. They may get some supplementary allowance from the Assistance Board, but if so it is comparatively small. We have a scheme for the benefit of aged people which I should not like to see brought to a halt at its present stage. As I have said, I am a member of the Swaffham Rural District Council, and, unfortunately, at its last meeting it decided to raise all their rents by approximately 25 per cent. The rents of the old people's one-bedroom bungalows which have been let at 8s. 6d. are to be raised to 10s. 6d. from the first week in April, and the rents of the two-bedroom bungalows which are now let at 10s. are to be raised to 12s. 6d. That decision has been made as a result of this Bill. The council has tried to outdo hon. Members opposite. It has decided to take that action because the Ministry are cutting down their subsidy and it has also decided to stop the rate fund contribution altogether, even to the old people's bungalows.

6.30 p.m.

The Council has made the decision, and the arguments were based entirely on the Bill. If other local authorities are to follow that example to raise the rents of these old people's bungalows, it will be solving no problem, because the old people will have to go somewhere else for the money with which to pay the rent. If it does not come from the Chancellor of the Exchequer in one direction it will in another.

I hope that no other housing authority will follow the example of the Swafham R.D.C. in this respect, because I think it has gone sadly wrong. In other respects, however, the Council has been doing a wonderful job in providing houses and bungalows to the extent to which it has provided them in the last ten years. It has been a shining example to the whole country and it has some of the finest bungalows and best houses, with all the amenities, which have been provided in our agricultural villages in Norfolk.

I am anxious to get the sympathetic ear of the Minister on this matter so that he may have a good look at the problem. If he does, I feel sure he will say that it is worth while continuing the subsidy to encourage local authorities to make this special provision for those who are not merely growing old but are growing infirm and, therefore, need assistance in their homes. We have the domestic help service, the nursing services and the medical services. I am sure that we shall be doing the right thing if we put as many people as possible in their own homes—homes specially designed for them—and give them the necessary assistance. That will be cheaper for the country and will bring more human happiness to the old people, and certainly to their neighbours and their relatives, who will be able to visit them.

It will then be possible to continue what has been a feature of village life, if not of town life—of neighbour helping neighbour and of the elderly helping the elderly. We encourage this through the old people's clubs, which meet in many cases weekly or fortnightly. At these meetings people talk not only about those who are present but also about those who are absent, inquire about their health and whether they can be visited. Old people then help each other.

That is voluntary work which is all to the good. I should have thought that we could agree that there is something in this Amendment quite different from any other Amendment. It should arouse no acrimonious discussion. With the growing number of elderly people in the country the best way of meeting their housing needs is still further to encourage local authorities to make this provision of bungalows and to encourage county councils to assist them and to co-operate in such schemes as those which I have outlined. I am sure that if the Minister will give it his support we can continue this good work to the credit of the nation.