Orders of the Day — Scotland (Devolution)

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 16 November 1949.

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Photo of Mr John Wheatley Mr John Wheatley , Edinburgh East 12:00, 16 November 1949

It is perhaps rather paradoxical, and yet quite characteristic, that during one of our longest Adjournment Debates, for a period of over four hours, Scottish Members, seasoned with a little Welsh rarebit at the end, should have discussed the alleged lack of opportunity of self-expression for Scottish Members.

If we are going to tackle this problem seriously, as I think most responsible people in Scotland want to tackle the problem, we must get down to the problem with well-defined and clear-cut ideas. We do not want to indulge in vague expressions, in woolly thinking or in large generalities. We must know exactly what we want and where we are going. I think most Members will agree with that. Accordingly, no purpose is served if Members come here and say that there is a growing opinion in Scotland for "this," without defining what "this" is. It is no use saying that the problems of Scotland require greater investigation, if they do not desiderate what these problems are. There is no use coming here and saying, "Let us have a Royal Commission or a Select Committee," without setting forth what, in their view, would be in general the terms of reference and the types of subjects which would be dealt with by that Royal Commission or Select Committee.

This question of devolution is a matter which is capable of various interpretations. One merely requires to have regard to the policies of the various national parties in Scotland to realise the great extremes to which this matter can go. Accordingly, we cannot come forward with a serious proposal to the Government to set up a Royal Commission or a Select Committee, or any other form of inquiry, unless we have definitely in our minds the subject matter which will form the basis of that inquiry, the limits and the objects of that inquiry, with a view to ascertaining what will follow at the inquiry. Merely to have an inquiry in vacuo takes us nowhere. It was suggested in the Debate that we required an inquiry of this nature. That is quite a common cry among a certain section—I think a small section—of the people of Scotland. But once again we find there a lack of specification. It is said "We want to know the facts," and if one poses the simple question "What facts?" it is very difficult to find out.

I know that the rules of this Debate circumscribed the statements of certain Members in the sense that they could not indicate what they wanted where legislation would be required. But the Debate ranged over a very wide field, and although the actual legislative action which might be required to follow out a certain policy would have been out of Order, there is nothing that I know of which would have precluded hon. Members from discussing the principles of the problems which confronted Scotland and which they wish to have investigated. We had none of them. We were asked to give the answers in an inquiry of this nature, but, if I may respectfully say so, we could not find from anybody the answers to what. Surely we were entitled to know what is at the back of the minds of the people asking for such an inquiry—what it is they wish to inquire into.