Orders of the Day — Parliament Bill

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 20 September 1948.

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Photo of Hon. John Maclay Hon. John Maclay , Montrose District of Burghs 12:00, 20 September 1948

While thanking the hon. Member for his statement, I should like to refer to his last remark when he said that hon. Members opposite were entitled to discuss the House of Lords as it is today. I would point out that the reason why we are having this Debate in its present form and the reason why this Bill is being introduced in its present form is because of the Government's action in throwing away the opportunity that was presented of getting a reform of the other place. I do not agree with some things which were said by the right hon. and learned Member for Montgomery (Mr. C. Davies) and the noble Lady the Member for Anglesey (Lady Megan Lloyd George), but on one thing I agree with them and that is that I regret that this great opportunity has been missed. I disagree, however, profoundly with both of them in their apportioning of the blame between the two main parties for the opportunity that has been missed.

There is one other thing 1 should like to say before I develop my main argument. I have been extremely interested to hear from practically everyone on the other side of the House as to how the case in regard to this Bill has been and will be presented to the country. We have heard a great deal about hereditary peers, for that theme has been running through most of the speeches and we have heard all about what happened in 1910 and also previous to that. What we are trying to discuss today is the Bill before us and what might have been before us if the Government had been prepared to face the implementation of real reform of the Upper House and to meet the arguments of the Opposition in regard to the powers of delay.

What is the situation we have got before us or might have had before us had there been agreement on the delaying powers? I hope the country will realise and that hon. Members opposite will see that their constituents realise that there is no disagreement between the political parties in this country on the hereditary principle. Hon. Members should make that clear in the country, because in the speeches which have gone before, particularly in that of the noble Lady the Member for Anglesey, concentration has been on the hereditary principle from which -hon. Members opposite seem unable to get away. We are all agreed that that principle must go. The sole issue which has created the situation which has brought this Bill into the House in its present form is the disagreement on the powers of delay of the Second Chamber. That is a very different story from what we have heard from the hon. Member for Cannock, and I see the subtlety of the argument of the hon. Member for Cannock and the hon. Member for Central Southwark because they did not think that the agreement would be implemented.

I do not see why they should take that view, and I wonder if the representatives of the Labour Party in the discussions that took place, held the view that it was impossible to implement the nine heads of the agreement. If one looks at the nine heads, one will agree that they represent a remarkable piece of constitutional progress even in their general terms. The first three are a big move forward. The first is that the Second Chamber is to be complementary to and not a rival to the Lower House, the second is designed to ensuring that no party shall have a permanent majority, and the third deals with the hereditary principle. Anybody who has studied the difficulties which other countries and particularly the Dominions have had in arriving at an ideal constitution for their Second Chamber will appreciate the progress that was made. These three points taken with the rest of the nine points in the agreement give us a workable constitution for a Second Chamber which reflects the very remarkable political maturity of this country.

Two things, I would suggest, have produced that maturity. One is our national character, which makes us look for effective compromise. The other is that we have an unwritten Constitution. I make no apology for repeating at this stage of the Debate that the very fact that we have an unwritten Constitution means that we must be extraordinarily careful in case we do anything which would allow any Government of any complexion to run away from its mandate and from the feeling of the people. I suggest also that there is a good deal of evidence that the present Government do not fully understand what it is that a lot of people who voted for them at the last General Election are now thinking about them. I see that the hon. and learned Member for Llandaff and Barry (Mr. Ungoed-Thomas) shakes his head. I am referring to what is the real purpose of this Bill, on which there is not even agreement between the hon. and learned Member and his own Front Bench as to its meaning. He holds one view and his Front Bench hold another.