Oral Answers to Questions — Government Departments – in the House of Commons at 12:00 am on 18 March 1947.
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
12:00,
18 March 1947
asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury if he will instruct Departments making statutory instruments that the use of the expression "all other powers enabling," should be discontinued, and that the powers exercised should be specified in the instrument.
Mr William Hall
, Colne Valley
No, Sir.
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
Would the right Iron Gentleman be more explicit in his answer?
Mr William Hall
, Colne Valley
The answer is explicit enough. I think the hon. Baronet's trouble is that it is too explicit. The use of these words is a harmless device, and they are necessary to catch up any other powers which may be there. They do no harm; they have been in use since 1862, I think, and I am sure that will appeal to the hon. Baronet.
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
Without wishing to discourage the right hon. Gentleman's respect for precedent, is not the present situation entirely unprecedented in that we are now virtually being governed by Statutory Orders and, therefore, we ought to be far more fastidious as to their form?
Mr William Hall
, Colne Valley
No, Sir, that is not the position at all. In so far as these Orders refer to Statutes, the Statutes are definitely specified. This is simply a device to catch up any other enabling points or measures which might necessarily be brought in.
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
Is it not the duty—
61 and 62. To ask (1) the Financial Secretary to the Treasury if, with reference to the expression "all other powers enabling." contained in the Inland Post Amendment (No. 7) Warrant, S.R. & O., 1946, No. 2118, he will identify the powers and explain why the said powers were not specified in the warrant;
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. With reference to Questions 61 and 62, may I draw your attention to the fact that I gave notice of them on 7th March, addressed to the Chancellor of the exchequer? It was only yesterday that the Treasury requested the Table to transfer the Questions to the Financial Secretary. If Questions are to be transferred, is it not the duty of the appropriate Department to do so promptly instead of leaving it until the last moment?
Mr William Hall
, Colne Valley
I accept that rebuke, and I am sorry the hon. Baronet was not informed earlier. It is a surprise to me that he was not.
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
I was not complaining that I was not informed, but I made a point that the Table was not informed until yesterday.
Mr Douglas Clifton Brown
, Hexham
The Financial Secretary has admitted the fact, and said he was sorry for it.
Mr William Hall
, Colne Valley
The answer is as follows: The expression is a drafting device commonly used to include any regulation-making powers in Acts other than those specifically mentioned. It is not known that any such powers were sought in this case.
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
Is it not the duty of the Ministers and the draftsmen to know what powers they are intending to exercise and to give the necessary information in the Order?
Mr William Hall
, Colne Valley
That is the case. They know very well, but, as I said in reply to an earlier Question by the hon. Baronet, there are sometimes additional powers of a subordinate kind which it is essential should, if possible, be caught up.
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
Why are those words used in these two Orders?
Mr William Hall
, Colne Valley
Simply because it is a common device used on all occasions in Orders of this kind. Ninety-nine times out of 100 there are no other supporting Regulations or powers within the parent Act which need be included.
Mr John Boyd-Carpenter
, Kingston upon Thames
Does the right hon. Gentleman's answer mean that in these Orders these words are quite pointless and meaningless?
Sir John Mellor
, Sutton Coldfield
I beg to give notice that I shall move to annul the Orders, in order that the question may be debated.
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